Class Politics Why join your class association ?

Deimos

Member
I can appreciate the reasons and was fully intending to join mine (i.e. in the country where I live). However, pre purchasing my boat I had a couple of major questions to ask them to clarify some regulations. I tried to contact them but never got any response. They thus appear to me now the same as many other institutions here - just take your money.
I appreciate they represent you, protect the class, etc. but if you cannot contact them, cannot get any response from them then how can they do this ? I am more than happy to pay to join an organisation that is active, does things, etc. but one that just takes your money and ignores you seems a bit of a waste of time.

Not trying to be controversial but I suppose I'm looking for reasons why I should spend the money as in many respects I do want to join, just do not want to send money into a "black hole" without good reason.

Ian
 
Ian, I am District 18 Secretary (it's easy and fun, kids!), so you are getting your first "official" reply. Who did you contact--the folks at the International level, or in France? I looked in your profile to find your place of residence. If you asked Internationally, it does take a while to get a reply, some weeks. You may get a quicker reply from your district leader. My ILCA member handbook shows that that is Jean-Luc Michon. E-mail: [email protected]. His mobile phone number is +33 6 62 10 98 32. Website www.francelaser.org If you contacted him already and didn't get a reply, well, it's a volunteer position.

Your questions may also be answered at the ILCA website under General Questions:
http://www.laserinternational.org/information/information.htm
Or at the North American Laser website:
http://www.nalaser.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=3&Itemid=72

One great thing that membership gets you is the Handbook that I mentioned. Besides the Constitution and Class Rules, it's got all the names, addresses, and e-mails of every district administrator, plus the district website URL if there is one. Just perusing the contents I see Masters Policy, Handicap Numbers, Coaching and Coaches International Events Calendar, Laser Library-books for Laser Sailors, Finances, Instructions for applying Sail Numbers & National Letters, Specifications and Parts Diagram, Boat Care, and more. So I think the $40 membership is worth just this book. Many of the questions that are frequently asked here at the forum are answered in the little ILCA volume or gives one leads to finding answers.

Hope this helps.
Janet Rupert
District 18 Secretary--Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, and Western Pennsylvania.
 
Deimos said:
Not trying to be controversial but I suppose I'm looking for reasons why I should spend the money as in many respects I do want to join, just do not want to send money into a "black hole" without good reason.

Ian

In addition to what Janet wrote, participating in higher-level regattas may require class membership. I don't know how relevant this is for France, but if Hyeres is on your 2007 schedule, you may want to consider that a good reason to join.
 
Remember these organisations are run by volunteers. They have full time jobs and families to look after. I have always been able to get in touch my reps without a problem. You may have just been unlucky with your timing.

A Class association is about a community that supports Laser sailors, you shouldn't expect too much from individuals. Forums like this are actually better places to ask questions as the load is spread across a lot more people.
 
Obviously a lot less people think joining the Class is worthwhile now than they used to, here in North America anyway! Latest newsletter (which costs the Class $3 apiece to produce) has NA membership at 900-odd. That's down quite a bit from 3100 in 4 years!

Merrily has the right attitude, for sure, but $40 for an ILCA Handbook is a lot of money! The Class Association also makes sure there are championship regattas in your World, continent, country, District etc. They're responsible for writing and enforcing your Class rules, so that everybody essentially sails the same boat.

Most importantly your Class Association Exec are a group of elected volunteers who are supposed to act as consumer advocates for you if you have problems dealing with your boat dealer or builder about their products - the boats themselves and all the many bits and pieces that make them work, like sails, blades, lines blablablab . . ...

If your Class Assn. is doing all this, and also putting out a great newsletter that you look for every time it is due to arrive because there are great regatta reports and pictures and lots of important information in them, then it's absolutely worth it to support them.

So far no reply to this thread from any of the current NA Exec, I notice . . . Tracy, you out there??

Gilgamesh
 
hey, iam sorry to say, butt here in Belgium, i pay my membership every year, no effence, where that money goes? lotts of drinks for the masters i suposse, the youth sailors never see no support, no training, no help, no nothing! Now there going to try to boost the 4.7 because some parents went on the class association, butt me and a whole generation youngsters who could have been great sailors where left in the cold for many years, while other classes and country's always had everything, we where always alone on the racing area, and train ourselves at the home club.

I hope there will be a fresh breeze now, butt the last generation had some serious neglect. That's why Evi Van Acker is now booming, she just started the laser radial recently after good coaching and training from the europeclass.

greetz Tom
 
hey, i cant edit my previous post, iam sorry for my mistakes in my english writing, i abviously mean but instead of butt.
 
butt me and a whole generation youngsters who could have been great sailors where left in the cold for many years, while other classes and country's always had everything, we where always alone on the racing area, and train ourselves at the home club.
greetz Tom

I don't think training is the responsibility of the class. That would be at the club level. If your club does not have coaches (which cost money, and lots of it for good coaches), then it may be time for you to look for a better sailing club.
 
I would agree with Steve, that supplying coaching can't be done by the Class Association. What they CAN do, though, is facilitate communication between Class members eg.

Say a group of young sailors want to get together and have a clinic over a weekend. A coach that one guy could not hope to afford could do a clinic for 10 or 20 people for a whole weekend. The Class's role in this is putting those sailors in touch with each other.

Same if 10 sailors from all over the US (or Europe?) were all planning to go to a big regatta - maybe by pooling their resources they can hire a great coach to work with them at the regatta. They get together from thousands of miles away by subscribing to this Forum - which, I'm guessing, is another service supported by the Class Association.
 
IThey get together from thousands of miles away by subscribing to this Forum - which, I'm guessing, is another service supported by the Class Association.

No, TLF is privately owned and operated by Bradley Green of the Sailing Forums Network, with no resources from the class.
 
A few years ago I read on the old email listserv that the International Class had about 100,000 pounds in the bank! Can anyone confirm that number is current?
 
money, money, money, money.......

if you can't afford a pro coach you just can't compete. not to mention new boat, new sails (often), $50k fancy zodiac for the "sports" parents to motor around in often getting in the damn way, videos, de-brief session, critques, and all the other stuff.

hell, I started sailing again when my kids got older. thought i was getting away from all the sports nazi stupidity.

the olympics had the effect of ramping up participation in the class...now, in the last 5 years or so, it has totally gone pro.

the FL districts mentioned elswhere was just weird...everybody in their little clicks, zero socializing, except among some ancients (like the kind folks running the regatta) and a few "normal" club members.

I do think this has had a direct negative effect on participation. Unless you are totally monied up, and I'm talking about youth, not me, you have no chance. And all this yields 1 US guy in the top 10 at the Miami OCR? Go figure.
 
A few years ago I read on the old email listserv that the International Class had about 100,000 pounds in the bank! Can anyone confirm that number is current?

When I was an ILCA officer, the International Class office had a huge bank balance that was a VERY sore point with most of the volunteer officers on the World Council.

The last report I recall which would be 2001, the amount was around 300,000 pounds, and certainly would be over 1/2 million now - that is to say well over $1M in US dollars. We used to refer to it as "Jeff's Superfund".

I haven't followed Laser politics closely for over 5 years now, so I don't know the financial status. But you certainly have the right to ask - it IS YOUR MONEY. You also have the right to demand that your elected Class officers tell you why it is that a non-profit organization has so much money socked away and exactly what they intend to do with it. There have been resolutions more than once by the World Council to spend some of that fund on promotion of Laser sailing, but . . . I can't say I've seen evidence of it.

The ILCA Exec Secretary Jeff Martin always said it was "in case of an emergency" that they kept a "reserve". I do remember on more than one occasion asking him how many people did he think would be racing Lasers after a nuclear war broke out, and short of that catastrophe, what sort of "emergency" did he forsee?

I kind of doubt they've sent any money for Tsunami relief, or Katrina relief. D'you think if sailors who lost their Lasers in those disasters wrote to Jeff for help he'd send them a cheque?

Mmmm, . . . Nah!

:cool:
 
The Laser World included with the Winter 2007 issue of The Laser Sailor doesn't seem to have any info on ILCA Finances. But the one sent with the Winter 2006 issue of TLS does.

This shows that on 30.09.04 the accumulated funds of ILCA were 650,489. (I assume that is in pounds sterling?)

To put it into context ILCA's expenditures were 614,595 in 2004 and 248,165 in 2003. The big difference between these two annual expenditures seems to be because the 2003 and 2004 World Chamionship expenditures were both accounted for in the financial year 2004.
 
To put it into context ILCA's expenditures were 614,595 in 2004 and 248,165 in 2003. The big difference between these two annual expenditures seems to be because the 2003 and 2004 World Chamionship expenditures were both accounted for in the financial year 2004.

If that is the only difference in costs between the two years then the "World Championships" must be rather expensive for the ILCA - in fact I would be interested to know where all the money would be going for a World Championship.
Ian
 
Again from the same source (ILCA accounts published in the LaserWorld bound into the Winter 2006 issue TLS), it looks as if championships are indeed the major expenditure of ILCA but in 2004 and 2003 they were self-supporting with, for example in 2004, championship income of 445,497 and championship expenditure of 420,432.
 
Here are some "championship expenditures" I know about:

1. ILCA pays for Jeff Martin to fly to prospective Worlds venues to meet with host clubs and check out the facilities, conditions, costs, accessibility etc.

2, Your World Council (the elected volunteer officers plus Jeff and the builder reps) has an all-day meeting at every World Championship and ILCA pays for all WC members' travel and accommodations for, I think it was 3 days. So if your class officer cannot sail in the event (Masters is open) at least they can attend the meeting, the awards for the Worlds regatta and the opening party for the Masters event. It's essential for them to be able to attend the WC meeting in person, and great PR for them to be able to meet all the sailors.

This still doesn't get us to the big numbers published in LaserWorld, so I'm guessing - maybe ILCA buys the boats (boats at Worlds are supplied - approx 140 brand new Lasers) ships them to the venue, then charters them to participants for the two weeks of Worlds regattas, and sells them off "lightly used". Since they must negotiate a good price from the builder on such a big purchase, plus the charter fee is not small, plus they re-coup much of the cost on re-sale, this can't cost a lot. Maybe insurance and shipping, but boat costs should be close to a wash. I'd emphasize that I don't KNOW if ILCA funds this boat supply exercise - you'd think if there was a profit in it the builders would do it, if not probably the Class funds it.

ILCA may also supply trophies, 10 deep at Worlds, plus 10 deep in 4 age categories at the Masters. Fifty of those little lexan cubes at cost?

<light bulb flashes on above my head> Oh yeah, there are now 2 Worlds regattas each year - the Radials have their own event, right? (since I left, Radial became an International Class all its own, then Olympic) So - double Jeff's travel for research, trophy costs, and double the boat supply, shipping, and insurance costs unless they can use the charter fleet for both events.

As Class members, you do have the right to ask for a breakdown, and also for a justification of their "reserve" funds. Ask your elected officers for this information, and they should make every effort to get it from their paid employee - Mr. Martin.

All that being said, Laser Worlds regattas are an immense undertaking, they are First Class regattas, and there's no doubt in my mind that Jeff Martin does a superb job of making them happen. But it IS expensive. That just means that every Class member should make the effort to attend, at least once. IF you can't qualify for the Open, then you can go when you are a Master, over 35. If you are a keen Laser sailor, it's the best vacation you can imagine.

Bottom line - professionally run Worlds regattas at wonderful venues every year ARE another reason to join your Class Association. But transparency of finances are essential - in a perfect world, Class Assocations operating on member's funds should have a zero balance all the time. Money should flow in from the members, and be directed out again by the management to nurture and grow the game the members are paying to play. ALL the members, not just Worlds participants and Olympic aspirants.

The accounting in LaserWorld sounds like it doesn't show the "reserve" amount. Ask about it!
 
Neither the existence nor the size of the reserve bothers me.

I would like to know how the reserve is being invested. My belief is we are well on our way to being able to send our Laser Class to an unprecedented next level. That next level would be "Operating the entire International Laser Class off of the revenues generated other than by membership fees."

The class is a tool. It is a tool for the organization of the game. It is a tool which can be used for the disssemination of information about the game. It is tool which can be used to promote the game.

We as Laser sailors would like to invite 100% of the world's population to come out and sail


Keeping track of who is an who is not a paid member of the ILCA is only necessary because those who "do not pay their fair share" must have an incentive to do so.

If the ILCA had sufficient sources of revenue, it would no longer need to consume resources keeping track of who was and was not paying membership fees.

For many, that would make our invitation to "everybody" a bit more obviously sincere.

Please do not confuse this comment with local membership. I would love to find a way to end the necessity for paid local membership as well but on the local and regional level membership is necessary for entirely different reasons.

Currently, the NA Class Association consumes at least 50% of its available resources managing and paying fees related to what we call membership. Membership provides only about 60% of the revenues. This does not mean a 10% shift in funding would end the need for membership. Locally, we use membership as a tool for entirely different reasons. We use membership in NA and in more local juristictions to force management of the "people who are available to play" database.
You do not renew your membership to "prove you paid your dues." You renew your membership to give those who want to find a Laser sailors your address, phone number, age, sex, boat sailed, and (since I started keeping track in 1999) your email address.

If the ILCA were to quit keeping track of membership and collecting international fees, the nA Association would only save 4.5 pounds sterling per member.

On the other hand, we could hire someone to spend 4.5 pounds collected from each of our 2500 members on the task of rable rousing and getting [people out to play with us.

So..I say make the ILCA fund big enoiugh to support the class. Solicit donations! make the laser Clas endowment into many millions and use the generated revenue to grow the game of lasering.

Of course...I was told I didn't know a damn thing about funding and finances and thrown out of management a few years back...so what do I know. Do not pay atention to anything I suggest!!!
 
Hi "dyzzypyxxy" and "gouvernail",
being one of many thousands Laserites out there, that never have been in "that sort of league" you "gray-backs" already have quit, it is interesting to read your replies in this thread. I hope, there is an independent cash-audit every year. Is this the case?
Remembering Shevy's words of 2004 and looking over the years since then to the behavior of several ILCA-functionaries (that still are active somewhere at the WC and "are in the same boat like the builders" I say), related to create a "better" class-rule-book or related to the rumors how the Radial has become an Olympic discipline, I see in your words, there is a need to pay more attention, how this money, you are talking about, is used.
To one side, a strong head of the class ("ILCA's heavy hands") is a need to demonstrate to the ISAF, the Laserclass stays "at the good side of the Force" (to say it like it is done at the Star Wars movies). To the other side, this only makes sense, if f.e. the ISAF / the IOC is at the good side of the Force also, are they? Well, I can't prove this, my orbit is to low, but I am sure, at my low orbit where I live: In future calm I can sail my little toy and have a lot of fun with her on the water more or less like I did it at the past (depends to the cases, if my Laser "Manatee" sails me or more to the opposite... :eek:) ).

I had to join the class here at my orbit, to get the papers (called: "international card for pleasure craft") for my Laser(s) for crossing the European borders here without any problems by the duty-authorities.
For paying my fee to the class I get support if needed and some brochures (related to sailing the Laser) during the year and in my opinion, I do some donation (with paying this fee) to the work of the class to grow up and educate very talented young sailors at that sailing class I do sail for that his youngsters not become computer-junkies but get fresh air.

Cheers
Looser Lu
being with "the Bears" tonight (Superbowl-Sunday) ;)
 
Neither the existence nor the size of the reserve bothers me.

I would like to know how the reserve is being invested. My belief is we are well on our way to being able to send our Laser Class to an unprecedented next level. That next level would be "Operating the entire International Laser Class off of the revenues generated other than by membership fees."

Good question. In the accounts I have already referenced twice...

2003
Accumulated funds - 628,523
Interest receivable - 17,838

2004
Accumulated funds - 650,489
Interest receivable - 22,009

About 3% return?? OK, maybe that's not fair. Maybe a lot of those funds have to be taken out of the bank to pay for all the things that gouvernail told us about it so are not earning any return for much of the year. I dunno.
 
Actually, I think the funds should be invested carefully in something like the folowing.
1/3 in interest bearing easily accessed for liquidity cash accounts
1/3 in very conservative mutual funds and stocks
1/3 in agressively managed but still somewhat conservative growth directed mutual funds

I would certainly step aside from being involved in the absolute decision making processes with respect to those investments.

Meanwhile, the ILCA should actively solicit donations to the fund. It should publically promote its long range plan to develop and maintain a virtually indestructible financial standing. It should also make clear that its goal is to solidify the position of the Laser as the single and only sailing craft used for singlehanded sailing competition and then to promote and grow that game.
 

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