Class Politics Vanguard is No More

TheBoathouse

New Member
Well the news which a lot of us have known for a while is out of the bag. Vanguard is no more. The new company will be called LaserPerformance. It will take a while to warm up to calling it that but change is usually inevitable. On top of that they have a new logo which is interesting.

 
Interesting. I wonder if this will affect the price-fixing.

Oh, and the new logo reminds me of the London Olympic logo, although not quite as bad. I suppose the stylized "V" is the last remnant of Vanguard. According to Chip Wilkerson, Vice President of Marketing. “The next step was to take a clean, modern look and marry it to a logo that could live beyond our products. I am really happy with where we ended up. We’re positioning ourselves for the future.”

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"This is the vision at the very heart of our brand," said London 2012 organising committee chairman Seb Coe. "It will define the venues we build and the Games we hold and act as a reminder of our promise to use the Olympic spirit to inspire everyone and reach out to young people around the world. "It is an invitation to take part and be involved."
 
Is anything changing other than the logo? Or is it just the old Vanguard company with a new marketing department?
 
Is anything changing other than the logo? Or is it just the old Vanguard company with a new marketing department?

Well if you have been following along Vanguard (aka LaserPerformance) was sold to Performance Sailcraft of the UK late last summer. So changes will happen (can you say Hyde sails for everyone?).
 
Hopefully for less than the current UK price from Performance Sailcraft of £390.00 or 769.74 U.S. dollars!
 
Well if you have been following along Vanguard (aka LaserPerformance) was sold to Performance Sailcraft of the UK late last summer. So changes will happen (can you say Hyde sails for everyone?).

Can you say white hulls and only white hulls for everyone?
 
So will the NA Laser Performance still be selling non-Laser products? Such as the CFJ and 420, 49er, Opti, Nomad, Pram, , Sunfish, and Vector?

Interesting note that if you still go to the Vanguard site, it's exactly the same except for the company logo.
 
So will the NA Laser Performance still be selling non-Laser products? Such as the CFJ and 420, 49er, Opti, Nomad, Pram, , Sunfish, and Vector?

No information or knowledge but I would expect that if it is a decently profitable part of the business then it would stay. If it makes low returns, detracts from very profitable aspects of the business, shows "limited potential", etc. then I would expect it to be cut back or dropped.

After all - it is about money and profit.

Ian
 
Vanguard manufactured a number of other boats, with the Sunfish being the best known. What's going to happen with these? It seems strange to have to buy a Sunfish (or 420 etc.) built by LaserPerformance.

Personally, I don't care for the new logo at all. In my eyes, it bears no relationship to water, wind, sailing or the Laser logo.
 
Vanguard manufactured a number of other boats, with the Sunfish being the best known. What's going to happen with these? It seems strange to have to buy a Sunfish (or 420 etc.) built by LaserPerformance.

Didn't we used to buy Lasers from Sunfish-Laser? So maybe it's not that strange buying a Sunfish from LaserPerformance. . .
 
Didn't we used to buy Lasers from Sunfish-Laser? So maybe it's not that strange buying a Sunfish from LaserPerformance. . ./QUOTE]

Yes and you used to buy Lasers from Vanguard which was originally formed by the Harken Brothers to build Olympic Finns and 470s....They will certainly keeping building their product line plus add to it with some of the UK boats. Curious what the Vanguard 15 may be called....
 
What surprises me is that there's no official announcement from Laser Performance that they have taken over Vanguard. I realize the change over happened a while ago and the name change is just one of the visible things about the change. I just got my Winter Laser Sailor magazine, and the column From the Builder is on 4.7 technical tips. We have questions about all the changes, not just the name. A pledge of continued quality seems to be the usual sort of thing.

Or have I missed the big publicity announcement/ event?
 
OK, that is better than nothing. We want to know if the boats will change? I know it's a one design, but isn't there variability due to a range in the specs and change in production methods? How will distribution change? How will service change? Will prices change? All this could be respectfully addressed by coming to us in an article in our North American magazine, The Laser Sailor.
 
I doubt any of that will change Merrily, no need to worry. Hopefully just better products, better customer service, and a worldwide dealer and service network as everyone is under the same sun
 
Ross pretty much hit the nail on the head.

As an employee of LaserPerformance, I can tell you with confidence that the Name change will not affect our determination to bring you the utmost quality in service and boats.

You can expect the same great service from LaserPerformance that you received from Vanguard Sailboats. There will be the introduction of several new products to both the UK and US markets, some of which have already been rolled out.

As always, if you have any questions comments or concerns, you can always call us: 1800-966-SAIL (7245) or reach us at [email protected]
 
I remember reading in some minutes of the class association that Vanguard would no longer be providing a monetary sponsorship of the Laser class beginning this year. Can someone confirm this? I personally feel this is lame considering we are required to buy boats, parts and sails from them. If they can't support the class, why should the class have to support them? I hope under the new organization, this stance will change.
 
I remember reading in some minutes of the class association that Vanguard would no longer be providing a monetary sponsorship of the Laser class beginning this year. Can someone confirm this? I personally feel this is lame considering we are required to buy boats, parts and sails from them. If they can't support the class, why should the class have to support them? I hope under the new organization, this stance will change.

If what you say is correct, then I think a better argument would be that if Vanguard/LaserPerformance is not providing money to the class, then they had better show the class why we should continue to designate them as the exclusive builder/sailmaker.
 
Here are the comments I was referring to in the earlier post. This excerpt is from the 2007 Annual General Meeting minutes posted on the ILCA-NA website.

Ned Jones from Vanguard/PSE gave a report summarizing the recent acquisition of Vanguard by Gavel Securities Limited. He sees this as a positive step for Vanguard and expects that the impact to ILCA-NA will be good. Derek Stowe asked for comment on the status of the financial support by Vanguard to ILCA-NA. Jones commented that Vanguard’s intention was to decrease that support in the future and that he expected that PSE would favor the same move.
 
If what you say is correct, then I think a better argument would be that if Vanguard/LaserPerformance is not providing money to the class, then they had better show the class why we should continue to designate them as the exclusive builder/sailmaker.

I don't know if it is no money, or a greatly reduced sum. The class was negotiating this point. I don't know how it has come out.
 
With the turn the conversation is taking, this thread belongs in Class Politics. It should have originally been posted in News.
 
If what you say is correct, then I think a better argument would be that if Vanguard/LaserPerformance is not providing money to the class, then they had better show the class why we should continue to designate them as the exclusive builder/sailmaker.

Truthfully, I don't think the class gets to designate who builds boats. The rights to the Laser design belong to a certain Canadian sailor, and he licenses the various builders to make the boat.
 
I doubt any of that will change Merrily, no need to worry. Hopefully just better products, better customer service, and a worldwide dealer and service network as everyone is under the same sun
Well I hope Ross is right - in the UK the dealer network is long gone, the manufacture of hulls is sub-contract, the parts cost in GBP what you pay in dollars. Oh but they do a really nice stand at the London Boatshow!

Ross may become more cynical as he lives longer!
 
It would be surprising if the PSE do not start moving towards the same model they use in Europe (as GBR 134 says, no dealer network and higher prices, etc.). Of course they are not going to announce that now (can you imagine what would happen if they did). I suspect it will be a gradual change over time. Erosion of dealer margins (so dealers hold lower or no stocks), maybe some/more direct sales. Nothing immediate and sudden and probably nothing attributable to the change in ownership with loads of excuses (e.g. to service customers better, increase in costs of raw materials).

It is a common tendency in Europe that when a company takes over another it then does have control of what happens, business as usual is not the aim of the game. Many take-overs where the existing company is left to just "get on with their lives" ends-up if failure to the detriment of everybody.

Ian
 
Regarding the dealer network - While it's nice to be able to drive for 30-90 minutes to be able to look over stock, is it really nec to go to the dealer in person for anything other then perhaps picking up a new boat or spar ?

How far do you guys in the UK have to drive to pick up a new boat ? I can't see the same model working the US or Canada due to the diff in physical size between the those wo countries and the UK. I could see perhaps a couple warehouses being setup. But even then you could be looking at a 10 hour drive to pick up a new boat..
 
How far do you guys in the UK have to drive to pick up a new boat ? ..

We have one distribution centre roughly in the middle of the country so if you live in Devon or the North of Scotland it's a long haul. You can order at the show etc and probably by phone or online and they will arrange delivery. I don't know the cost but when I got a new hull via insurance (lovely jubbly) the delivery cost (by specialist dinghy transporter) was £250 if I wanted it NOW! or £150 if I waited 'till they were next coming my way.

Obviously I couldn't wait even the 3 days for delivery NOW so took a 7 hour round trip the minute it was ready!
 
How far do you guys in the UK have to drive to pick up a new boat ?

Not the question but maybe relevant is France. No builder in France and its a bigger country than the UK. There are a few dealers (large or specialised). Probably around 4 (some time since I last looked though). Basically one importer and a few people selling boats and equipment. No idea about the odds and ends aspects (as I just order what I need from Paris on the internet).

Also, prices are higher here than in the UK (maybe "more mouths to feed" so to speak).

Ian
 
Not the question but maybe relevant is France. No builder in France and its a bigger country than the UK. There are a few dealers (large or specialised). Probably around 4 (some time since I last looked though). Basically one importer and a few people selling boats and equipment. No idea about the odds and ends aspects (as I just order what I need from Paris on the internet).

Also, prices are higher here than in the UK (maybe "more mouths to feed" so to speak).

Ian

Just out of curiosity... what would be the price of the boat if you removed the VAT?
 
The key indicator of an American boat company that is about to begin a rapid decline and will most certainly be either out of business or losing well over 90% of its business is a foolhardy management team that decides "the dealer share" is an unnecessary part of its expenses.

If the dealer network is disassembled, there will no longer be Lasers sold in sufficient quantities for the North American Laser Game to be played.

If the financial support from the builder is decreased or suspended, the North American Laser class will no longer have the necesssary resources to perform its function as a promotional tool for either the builder of the product of the game played with the product.

If the dealer network is disassembled, the dealers who understand the need for promotion and who, as a result, support the class will also cease to exist.

If the class organization loses that 70% of its funding and is encumbered with the added burden of organizing playtimes that used to be organized by the local dealers, ....


A lot of us may be taking up some new hobby because no one will be there to replace the 90% percent of us who give up the game within seven years of our first race.


Conservative management by Vanguard and the NA Class has barely kept the Laser game alive for the last few years.

I am holding out hope for the new owners of the trademark.

I hope the owners recognize the need for some radical new clever and enthusiasticly applied promotion.

The game has multiple great qualities and the business owner who carefully invests and fosters and serves that game could be rewarded with lucrative profits.

If the new owners plan to just "let the Laser sell itself" while introducing new lines of boats to increase the size of the business...

Maybe they can find the old Laser 28 molds??
 
In France: a Laser Standard XD (new "Pro" gear, etc.) is 5505€ ex VAT (i.e. 6576€ after VAT) all excl delivery. Which is 8137 US$ (excl VAT) or 9720 US$ incl VAT

Ian
 
>>>>Sorry, I just saw Deimos made a reply during I wrote my answer below, so his and my answers are double in several points ov view ...<<<<

Just out of curiosity... what would be the price of the boat if you removed the VAT?
Tracy,
A Laser Standard (G-XD) at France does cost (at the list) 6576 Euro incl 19,6% VAT (at the Laserdealer at Paris).
The VAT of GB is 17.5% (I can't find the list-price of UK Lasers in the moment).
VAT at GER is 19%, here a Laser Std. G-XD does cost (at the list) 6450 Euro incl.VAT.

Paris (like Lndon or Berlin) is a really expensive pavement, everyone knows that here... I wouldn't compare prices between the continents. To many aspects have invluence for an objective comparing, not only the naked price of the Laser.

BTW:Only one product is able to be compared worldwide ~objective. It's the simple MacDonalds Hamburger. Therfore one knows the famous "Hamburger-Index" in the economics, but this does not belong tho the toppic of this thread....

Ciao
LooserLu


P.S. If one is not happy with the new boats of LaserPerformance-USA, I would advise to switch to "LaserRevell". They have excelent Laser Radials for low prices in the moment. Merrily got one from me to Christmas and may tell (at the TLF-"Other Discussion"-section about it, I guess) about it. Okay, one point to mention: Sailors that decide to sail that boats, have to have the strong "Hobbit"-diet, I'm afraid....
 
Current UK price from PSE website:-

Cost

Laser Classic £3795.00 inc VAT
Laser Race 05 £4095.00 inc VAT
Laser G-XD £4495.00 inc VAT
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(My note - the 05 is described as an 06 in the spec sheet and has a reasonable club race spec. Why they describe an 06 but price an 05 and it's now 08 is a mystery to me)
 

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