Used J24 - repair costs?

D

der_ami

New Member
Hello wonderful forum members,

I moved from Germany to Miami a year ago. In Berlin I sailed regularly and took part in my first regatta there. I LOVED it.

Now I am really trying to get into sailing sport here in S. Florida. Two things are keeping me from starting: where to keep the boat and a boat.

I may have a place at the US Sailing Center in Miami but would need a boat with a trailer OR I could just anchor the boat at the Marine Stadium until my turn comes up on a waiting list, BUT storing a J24 in the water (bottom paint, hull not perfectly clean...) that I also want to start racing sounds like just adding to my (many) handicaps as a new person getting into the sport.

There are a few j/24s being sold down here:
J24 - boats - by owner - marine sale - no trailer and from what I have researched at least $4000 to repair.
https://offerup.com/item/detail/1294232292?q=sail&cid=5.4 a former live aboard, no trailer, has not had the bottom painted but has been in the water for at least a year, the bottom has not been cleaned in months.
Hull #1758 For Sale Miami And the one on this forum, which I think would be good, but he stopped answering me. Love to hear feedback, even via DM about tips to this boat. I am not sure what it means to have a "New lighter bow retrofit" if I also want to go cruising a bit with my wife (zero experience) on the boat.

I am looking to spend less then $4k for the boat if possible. I'll need some instruction, which I can pay for of course. Any other feedback??? I REALLY want to be back on the water in my own boat AND I want to learn racing, I don't need to win, but I also do not want to be that guy that is always in the way of everyone else either.
 
Good that you're enthusiastic about sailing. This post of yours is a couple of months old, so of course I don't know what you've done or decided.

If you're not a very experienced sailor, which is what I sense, I think you shouldn't try to start racing in a J/24. Sailing's a complicated sport. It's physics (aerodynamics, hydrodynamics, etc.), meteorology, gaming (the strategy and tactics), understanding of the rules, and with a boat as large as a J/24 (crew of 4 or 5), management, psychology, organization, etc. You should really get your feet wet by racing a smaller boat with just yourself or maybe one other person.

Sailboat racing is a huge commitment. You can't do it a half-dozen times a year and expect to get anywhere. I suggest that you try to crew with people on their boats. If you're really serious, keep trying to get on better boats. You'll learn more in smaller boats than bigger boats. In the beginning, you're most likely to be with someone who's not so great. After a year or so get a Laser or a two-man dinghy and start racing that, while still crewing. Years go by. It takes a lot of time in the boat to get anywhere.

I suggest that you research sailing clubs near where you live and find out about what classes of boats are raced at the clubs. How often, the level of competition, etc. It may not be easy to find something that suits your situation. You want competition, but not of the degree that all your fellow competitors are aspiring Olympians (I exaggerate, but hopefully you get my point).

I have a soft spot for j/24s, having owned one for about 25 years and raced it for 13. But in general the class is not as active as it once was. There are newer boats that have less crew demands that are fun to sail and go faster. Crew can be a problem in this time with high demands on parents to take kids to soccer, etc. It was different 30 years ago. Because the class was once so popular, there are many boats out there, and they are generally relatively cheap. But lots need work. Still... a good one can be had for less than $4000, it looks to me. If you really desire one, it could be good for cruising, but there are probably better choices if that will be the primary use. I don't recommend spending the time and money fixing up one that needs any significant repairs. It just gets in the way of sailing. Racing on a local level for J/24s is not very active in many places... but not all. Some places, that's the only remaining game in town. National level events still bring out the experts.

If you really have to have one, pay a lot of attention to structural stuff. The integrity of the deck (old boats have lots of problems with water/moisture, particularly around all deck fittings), the bilge, bulkheads, keel attachment, hull blisters (don't go near that boat that's been in the water without anti-fouling paint), etc. Spend lots of hours reading about the repairs on the old boats. At the US class website there is an old article about buying used boats that's helpful, but it sure doesn't tell it all. Parts and fittings have gotten expensive. I bought a new rudder in 1996 for $800 (I deemed the old one to be waterlogged), and the fittings for it for ~$250. Last I checked about 2 years ago, the rudder is $1800 and the fittings are ~$750. Crikey!

In Annapolis, when I joined the fleet in 1996, on an average Saturday there would be 20+ identical boats (J's) on the starting line (that's good racing!), and sails cost ~1000 each. You needed at least two new ones a year to be competitive. There were about 15 local regattas in a summer that I could participate in. When I quit, in 2009, we were down to about 4 or 5 regattas a year, and usually there would be only 5 or 6 boats. Sails cost $2000. And my crew was long-in-the-tooth, married with kids, and often couldn't come. I couldn't face up to training newbies. It didn't make sense, especially since I live 2-1/2 hours away from there. Now I race a Laser.

For the people that live locally around Annapolis, they can race their J/24s on Thursday evenings. That seems to be the big thing. But it ain't the same as a real regatta, and I could never do that because I wasn't local.

Good luck.
 
From the other side of the fence, I think a J24 is the best boat in the whole world to start sailing and racing. That is how my family started back in the 80's, and I don't think I would be half the sailor I am today if we bought a Catalina 22, or 25 (comparable at the time). I highly doubt someone who has never had a boat would buy one and instantly go racing, but I could be wrong. Everything Vince stated about what to look for in a J24 is spot on, you want to enjoy sailing not spending too much time fixing it up. I don't know about the number of boats that are active in Miami or if there is a fleet, but the yacht club is a great place to start looking and searching. There might be PHRF racing or weekday sailing/racing that could interest you to start with. Not too many J24's out here on the west coast, seems like a lot of active fleets are on the east coast and Texas. Considering you sailed regularly, I think you would be just fine with a J24, and see how far you can get racing that before potentially moving on to something newer and more exciting. Good Luck!
 
I understand your point of view. I love sailing and wouldn't participate here if I didn't have great fondness for J/24s. I raced mine for ~13 years, and we had a blast! But I do think racing is not so simple, and I've witnessed several people try to learn the sport in J/24s and become disillusioned and quit. I don't like to see that! It's really important in my view to get a good handle on what racing a boat is all about before doing your own thing on a boat that requires crew of more than one other person.

I started racing as a teenager with my father who was new to the sport. With kids, work, etc., we only got out to race maybe 5 times a summer. We didn't accomplish much. I only really came to appreciate it once I went off to college where we had a club (not varsity) sailing team. There were a couple of freshmen there that had spent their lives racing sailboats with their families and it was truly an eye-opener for me. I saw what it was really supposed to be like. If it hadn't been for them I probably wouldn't be sailing now. Freshman year we went down to Navy for the Mid-Atlantic Freshman championships and finished in the top 5 of about 25 teams. Both my father's interest and these two guys at college created a life-changing experience for me.

I still say, if you want to learn to race, start in small boats where everything is simpler (and less expensive).

Good luck/good sailing to all.

-V
 
I couldn’t resist putting my two cents in on the subject of racing - regarding what is the ‘best’ way to get started and the prerequisites for starting racing your J/24 (whenever you acquire your boat). I also agree with the advice offered by Vince regarding the cautions about choosing a sound boat and the practical considerations and trade-offs in getting a boat that has a lot of issues vis-a-vis one that has good bones and has been well cared for - worth every penny in my opinion.
Regarding your prospects for racing, including the opportunities to begin your racing exploits in a J/24 and the prospects for learning and being ‘successful’ (which I caution can have many meanings - from winning big one-design regattas, to having fun learning from watching what makes other boats go faster than you and learning about things like what makes you fast when there appears to be no wind, and the importance of local knowledge such as in the Chesapeake Bay).
I just sold my J/30 this past summer, after 31 years of great times racing her and learning from my/our mistakes as a team. I raced her mostly in distance races in and around Buzzards Bay, always in PHRF because there wasn’t a large local fleet to make one-design racing available.
But I started racing - and learned the most about what makes you go fast and how to achieve some competitiveness when I owned a 25’ North Star 500 out of Annapolis in CBYRA organized races - first in MORC (Midget Ocean Racing Class - sort of a small boat IOR measurement-based handicapping system), and then in PHRF when the number of MORC racers dwindled too much to support competition.
But in those early years (prior to owning my J/30) my racing in the North Star were amazing and provided a tremendous opportunity to learn about basically ‘what makes this boat go fast’ and tremendous fun in the process!
The learning curve to get faster on the water involved understanding sail trim, light vs. heavy air performance, weight distribution, preparation of the boat itself and, importantly, getting a good, regular crew together who all contributed to the boat’s success on the water. In the space of about four years, my performance - mainly in longer distance races on the Chesapeake went from being dead last among all boats in all handicap classes in a big regatta, to taking 2nd place overall in my 30’ and under class in a 360 mile circumnavigation of the Delmarva peninsula (Annapolis north through northern Chesapeake, through C & D Canal, down Delaware Bay out to 25 mi offshore, then to Norfolk and back up to the finish in Annapolis (4 days, or more of round the clock racing).
After moving up to the J/30, I continued the learning process - nearly always with greatly enjoyable experiences - and had a measure of success in taking silver many times competing in PHRF.
Whew! I just had to offer my two cents on what has been for me an amazing 40 or so years of racing fun - just getting a good, sound boat and learning how to make her sail fast. I have bought a project boat - a 1986 J/24 - that will fulfill my ‘need’ to be on the water as I start this year at age 76 looking forward to learning how to make her go fast!
Best of luck with your aspirations, get a sound boat (as Vince and everyone will advise) and always have fun!
 
Interesting to hear your story, Bill!

Of course, none of us really answered the question about what are the repair costs. But we didn't get any real information about what repairs were needed, either. My last comment on this general topic though, is that I admit that I've enjoyed working on the boat, sometimes spent quite a bit of time at it, and learned a lot about boat repairs. But I recommend that everybody go sailing instead.

-V
 
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