Upwind in strong gusty winds

Alysum

Member
Yesterday in Sydney I was racing in strong VERY gusty northwest winds at 15knots with gusts reaching mid 20s.
It was one of the worst races I've ever done :D couldn't keep the damn boat flat, capsized several times during a gust plus water was very choppy.

Going upwind I pulled the vang as tight as possible, pulled the cunningham pretty tight too and the outhaul between hand and half hand length.
It was pretty much impossible to keep the sheet block to block or near otherwise during a gust the boat would heel so much and capsize despite me and my 85KGs hiking out hard on a full rig.
Got a couple of capsized to windward too when the gust stopped and didn't rush back into the boat in time.

I had to let go the sheet quite a bit and it would often hit the water (amazingly the clew tie down strap came off, had to stop to fix it...).
Was so busy hiking out and easing/pulling the sheet so I didn't have enough time/concentration to look at the waves and go over them properly :(

So how do you guys manage in gusty conditions ? When a gust hits and the boat heels should I mainly steer into the wind and/or ease sheet or pray for god ?
Any tips welcomed...
 
Yesterday in Sydney I was racing in strong VERY gusty northwest winds at 15knots with gusts reaching mid 20s.
It was one of the worst races I've ever done :D couldn't keep the damn boat flat, capsized several times during a gust plus water was very choppy.

Going upwind I pulled the vang as tight as possible, pulled the cunningham pretty tight too and the outhaul between hand and half hand length.
It was pretty much impossible to keep the sheet block to block or near otherwise during a gust the boat would heel so much and capsize despite me and my 85KGs hiking out hard on a full rig.
Got a couple of capsized to windward too when the gust stopped and didn't rush back into the boat in time.

I had to let go the sheet quite a bit and it would often hit the water (amazingly the clew tie down strap came off, had to stop to fix it...).
Was so busy hiking out and easing/pulling the sheet so I didn't have enough time/concentration to look at the waves and go over them properly :(

So how do you guys manage in gusty conditions ? When a gust hits and the boat heels should I mainly steer into the wind and/or ease sheet or pray for god ?
Any tips welcomed...

Well, if there's waves, you don't want to pinch much because that will stop you. If you are overpowered, you should have the cunningham on all the way. I'd only have one hand width on the outhaul in overpowered conditions. You need some bag in the foot to help you get over the waves. If you can, play the controls, putting them on before the gust arrives. If doesn't work for you at first, leave them on. You'll still have to ease, hike, and trim, and the bruises just seem to appear like magic!
 
yes it does I know.... just that here in Sydney the wind is very different from the 4 directions and this one was a rare one but good for learning.

how should I approach waves ? I must say it was the first time really I faces big waves as I usually sail in flatter water bays.
 
I was out in similar conditions last week. the first lap of the race on the upwind leg it was a nightmare having to ease so much the boom was in and slowing me down,couldn't keep it flat at all.
The next lap, I cranked on the cunni, tightened the outhaul a few inches,it was like sailing another boat.It meant I could concentrate more on going straight and keeping on the edge of the wind. It was pretty flat which meant pinching was possible,(but only if you have control of the boat!!)so a lot less effort.I still had to hike hard and ease some, but nothing like the first lap.
It is amazing how sensitive lasers are to their controls.
 
>> Going upwind I pulled the vang as tight as possible

that's the key. you were overpowered with closed leach. if vang was free and you eased the sail the top third of the sail would open and bleed off gusts
 
First, at 85kg ,you should be able to keep the boat flat except for the big gusts.

Thoughts...

1) Keep the boat flat. It will help "track" through the waves and you'll feel like you're being "pulled" to weather. This isn't superflat, but aim for that, and you'll feel it.

2) Keep an eye to weather, pinch in the smaller gusts. This is not a big pinch, but requires some practice to find. And hike harder.

3) Dump sheet in the big gusts. 3-5 ft between the traveler blocks. You need to have vang on hard. Make sure your vang will provide enough tension without deadending the blocks. Make sure you have enough purchase in the vang to approach deadending it - you don't want to have the excuse that you weren't strong enough to pull on enough vang. Watch the boom - it should go out, not up when you have the vang pulled on hard. And hike harder.

4) C'ham to the gooseneck. Outhaul depends on your sail. If it's old, you can strap the foot if you have some bag above it. Otherwise, about 4-6 inches of draft (above the folds and wrinkles at the foot) will still provide enough power.

5) Make sure your hiking strap is set properly. You should feel pressure on your calves and on the hiking pant battens. If your strap is too tight, you will be fighting to straighten your legs and wear out your quads too quickly. Too loose, and you'll slide around and not feel "locked" to the boat and not hike aggressively. Go out in 10-14kts and fiddle with your hiking strap adjustment until you find the proper setting.
 
Work with the main, if you do that correctly you'll be able to keep the boat going no matter how bad the rest of your stuff is trimmed =P (of course people with welltrimmed boats will go faster but the point is that it all comes down to working with the main).
 
basically, ease, hike, trim for the short puffs, and pinch for the more consistent ones, and work the smaller lines accordingly as well
 
>> Going upwind I pulled the vang as tight as possible

that's the key. you were overpowered with closed leach. if vang was free and you eased the sail the top third of the sail would open and bleed off gusts

yeaaaa nooo


If your overpowered, you need to crank the vang on, and vang sheet. By doing this, you let the sail out, but not up. I know some can describe it better than me. But its the way to go if you are overpowered. It's faster to ease off, and point down a bit, and power up and have speed, than to be 2blocked and heeling over and sliding.
 
yeaaaa nooo


If your overpowered, you need to crank the vang on, and vang sheet. By doing this, you let the sail out, but not up. I know some can describe it better than me. But its the way to go if you are overpowered. It's faster to ease off, and point down a bit, and power up and have speed, than to be 2blocked and heeling over and sliding.

hmm, my experience tends to match this description (second paragraph):
http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=xtrem&Store_Code=1
 
well if its gusting every couple of seconds, you can go with that I guess

try vang sheeting, dunno, it doesn't usually get crazy gusty here in SoCal
 
I pretty much always sail in really gusty conditions and I find that you need a decent bit of vang. I might use more vang in slightly lighter airs, not sure, but I still use a decent bit of vang in heavy and gusty conditions (I figure the boom might go out in about a 45 degree angle).
 
goes without saying (which is why it took so long for me to realize it !!). First thing is have your traveler really really tight, so that when you are two blocked you have as much mast bend as you possible can get - flattening the sail as much as possible.

Then next thing that seems to work for me is adding lots of cunningham. The only limit here is that as the waves build it gets harder to keep enough power in the sail to keep going over the waves. - I have not yet pulled it on enough so it is below the boom, but I have had the bottom of the grommet right down on the boom.

I also put on a lot of vang - this is sailing in 15ks steady gusting 25kts. As it gets up to 35kts and more I can see that you change to much more survival sailing & the rules might change. I have not had a laser out in those conditions.


I consistently keep too much sheet in and not enough cuningham on during the races and struggle to go upwind heeled over. Then after the races are over I pull on more cunningham and ease the sheet, hike & take off with the boat flat, then magically I can sheet in a little - then start healing, ease out , hike like a maniac and take off again ...
why can't I convince myself to do it during a race ????
 
I consistently keep too much sheet in and not enough cuningham on during the races and struggle to go upwind heeled over. Then after the races are over I pull on more cunningham and ease the sheet, hike & take off with the boat flat, then magically I can sheet in a little - then start healing, ease out , hike like a maniac and take off again ...
why can't I convince myself to do it during a race ????

You have a lot to think about during a race, but I'll bet that now that you've said it, you'll be putting on more cunningham during races. I have trouble getting enough C on during a race, too. Pretty much, you have to stop everything else, brace your feet on the front of the cockpit, and PULL, then PULL some more. Meanwhile, your competitors have picked the shift that you just missed by fiddling with the boat and are pulling away. Then how do you keep all the extra line from getting tangled?
 
i use no vang or very little in Heavy wind it opens up the leach and lets some air off the sail also its much faster although you wont be able to point as high also being in shape helps the most and Merrily you should get a Hammy with more purchase itll be alot easier
 
Merrily you should get a Hammy with more purchase itll be alot easier

I have the PRO C'ham with lots of blocks and plenty of purchase. That's why there's so much line flopping around after I pull it on hard. As for it being difficult to pull on, I guess it's my girly muscles, and I'm in pretty good shape for me.
 
i use no vang or very little in Heavy wind it opens up the leach and lets some air off the sail also its much faster although you wont be able to point as high also being in shape helps the most and Merrily you should get a Hammy with more purchase itll be alot easier

What is your definition of "Heavy wind"? I was talking about 15kts in my post and most people don't think of that as "Heavy" - even though it is about as much as I can handle focusing on racing rather than staying upright :)
 
Yesterday in Sydney I was racing in strong VERY gusty northwest winds at 15knots with gusts reaching mid 20s.

etc etc

So how do you guys manage in gusty conditions ? When a gust hits and the boat heels should I mainly steer into the wind and/or ease sheet or pray for god ?
Any tips welcomed...

I think it depends on a couple of variables -

the range of wind speed

your body weight

and the wave hieght

In the conditions you describe, i would set the vang to suit average wind speed. That may translate to be about 3/4 on or about 30cm out from block to block. Then leave the cunningham off and use the outhaul to adjust for gusts and lulls. If the opportunity for two blocking arises you can simply use the mainsheet insted. In gusty conditions this may not arise very often - it will depend on your body wieght, the age of your sail, how it is trimmed and the variances in wind speed. The reason I leave the cunningham off and use just the outhaul is that the ability to point increases and when you need to dump air in a heavy gust the sail maintains power sooner - you don't need to let out so much mainsheet.

Another important point is body position. If the water is flat it is critical. When under a gust, move aft until the nose lifts and boat begins to feel "light". Too far forward and the speed will seem to stall, as if you were locked in a wave trough (which technically you are).

AH yes, and in flat water, crabbing (pinching) is the way to go. You will stay flatter longer, point higher and generally not tire yourself out or lose unnecessary ground. In waves do what you have to. Pinching in 15-20knot waves will generally lose you a race, but losing ground by bearing away to often will do it too.
 
Very interesting answer. In particular the comment about cummingham tension. If have been advised to pull the cummingham with all my might and in waves release the outhaul to have power. Which is correct?
 
I'm slightly confused by the question. You're saying in waves you've been told to either pull the cunningham as hard as possible OR to ease the outhaul?

It's been quite some time since I raced, but if I recall correctly if you're overpowered you want tons of cunningham to try and flatten the sail. In flat water you could pull on some outhaul to further help flatten, but in waves you want power in the foot of the sail, so want to leave the outhaul looser.
 
Very interesting answer. In particular the comment about cummingham tension. If have been advised to pull the cummingham with all my might and in waves release the outhaul to have power. Which is correct?

It’s difficult to outline a failsafe approach suitable for all weights techniques and styles. In fact its difficult to get anything close without only describing exactly what you did on any given day in any given circumstances. I can only outline some considerations before you haul on the cunningham:

Where is the wind coming from?

Which tack are you on?

What point of sail are you on?

What is you personal experience so far in these conditions?

If I were close hauled in waves with 10-15knot NW on port tack I would not need any cunningham past snug/no wrinkles. If I were on starboard, the thought would not even enter my mind.

If I were bashing into waves in a 25-30knot NW on port I would use the cunningham, but not before pulling on as much outhaul as I could without compromising too much speed. If I were on starboard, I may not be so eager to use the cunningham.

None of this will gaurantee me a race.
 
Probably the best instructional video that pulls the theory and practice together for dealing with heavy winds while manouvering through big waves to windward is Steve Cockerill's "Boat Whisperer - upwind". Corny title by the messages are crystal clear.
 
For me, I find the depowering loop is kinda, kicker, then cunningham to medium, then more kicker, then outhaul, then full kicker, then full cunningham, then start to panic.
I never pull the outhaul overly tight, although when I sailed on flat water back in NZ (Yay, 3 of us kiwis in a row) I used it a lot more.
 
Hey, we'll see how well we rock after the Terrigal Masters in Feb!

Had a Sunday last training on Lake Te anau (in the deep south). Wind blowing 18-20kts gusting 26.

Excess weather helm cured by max outhaul, cunningham (I'm thinking of increasing the # of purchases in my outhaul system to 8:1) and mega vang. The vang tension required me to roll nearly horizontal under the boom to tack, but it meant the sail kept its shape when I dumped sheet.

Upwind performance through quite steep waves was a huge improvement. Downhill more work required!
 
Very interesting answer. In particular the comment about cummingham tension. If have been advised to pull the cummingham with all my might and in waves release the outhaul to have power. Which is correct?

You're right, it is interesting!
When I was racing in Whangarei as a lad, the club used to hire coaches a few times a year. Some of them insisted that pulling on the cunningham pulled the draft too far forward and killed your pointing ability, so they depowered using outhaul and vang, the cunningham being last resort. Others insisted that you should use vang and cunningham, and the outhaul should rarely be moved from its "normal" position.

I would say just try a few options (do it for the whole race/practise session, to eliminate too many variables) and see what fits with your sailing style. Remember, its really an art, not a specific science, so what works for someone else probably wont work for you anyway!

paulmarshall said:
The vang tension required me to roll nearly horizontal under the boom to tack, but it meant the sail kept its shape when I dumped sheet.

What a lot of lightweights are doing over here now, with the new really powerful vang, is release it right before they tack, to allow the boom to lift, then crank it back down straight afterwards. I'm thinking I might have to start that soon, as I find my boom seems lower and lower as I get older (and fatter)!!
 
It's a question of balance - finding the setup that will balance the complex forces that are involved.

And they are complex. You directly exert forces on the boat through your weight, hiking action, helm movements etc), the sail generates heeling moment, lift, turning moment around the centreboard), the foils generate lift off the foils, plus the action of the hull through the water -and the wave state. The list goes on and on... And all those forces change as the wind strength and direction changes.

It is possible to model those forces and predict the best setup for a given wind/wave/sailor configuration, but my suggestion would be to appreciate the basics, experiment alot and develop "feel" for how the boat is going. That equals time on the water.
 
As long as we are on the topic of heavy upwind sailing, I was doing everything right to sail upwind in my last regatta (or so I thought) when my mast snapped. How common is this? Is there anyway to prevent this unpleasant experience from happening again? Luckily I saved the sail from ripping, but its not something I want to have to worry about in an upwind leg. Any suggestions?
 
I've not broken a mast but have bent a top section. That was wiping out downwind at speed. My coach, last Sunday, fessed up to breaking one mast, but that apparently was quite corroded. Age of the spars obviously increases the likelihood of breakage. Upwind, maxing the vang certainly puts boom and mast under enormous load so breakage is probably only a matter of time.
 
You'll find plenty of references in here to broken top sections Joanna. Yes it happens a lot. Usually shearing off at the rivet hole. My last one only lasted 10months.
Rule 1 - make sure the rivet is at the back of the top section.
Rule 2 - make sure your top section is watertight - fill the rivet hole with silicon. Check if it has any water in it after you've capsized a few times (thats if you ever capsize (-; ). Rinse out with fresh water and dry it well if it gets water inside.
Oops - did we hijack the thread ?? Sorry
 
Thanks - I think the rivet must have been in the wrong place or it was just old equipment. I hadn't capsized yet that day (though I've had my fair share). Sorry to take the thread in a different direction, but I think its still relevant to heavy upwind sailing.
 

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