Upgrades?

S

Shaelyn Hardie

New Member
Hey guys so I've been thinking about upgrading some of my rigging. My laser is 42 years old and I don't have a lot of money ( I'm 16 and don't have a job :() so what do you think would be most beneficial? I have a hard time adjusting the vang and my lines are starting to get questionably old. TIA for any suggestions or advice!
-Shaelyn
 
Start with what you NEED to replace... and if the lines are getting old, frayed and weak, they'd be high on the list (and relatively inexpensive)

Can't really make recommendations beyond that without knowing condition of the other stuff on the boat.
If something needs replacing, consider the upgrade part cost vs OEM vs your budget....
 
It would be easiest to answer your question if you posted pictures of your current equipment. We could then make a quick priority list.

As the vang goes, the most important things about it are that the cleat swivels, there's enough purchase, and the tail is long enough. (That is, compared with a typical 1970s Laser vang.)
 
... and a big question is, are you racing + need to be class-legal, or just recreational? The answer to that will guide a whole lot of the suggestions, and of the costs.
 
cskudder, that doesn't apply here, if we're talking only about things like lines and control line blocks. There are very few restrictions on them, and the choices are between more or less expensive legal alternatives.
 
LaLi said:
cskudder, that doesn't apply here, if we're talking only about things like lines and control line blocks. There are very few restrictions on them, and the choices are between more or less expensive legal alternatives.
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I'm thinking in regard to the vang for instance, which she mentions. More purchase will help + there are ways to do that cheaper if class-legal is not a constraint.
 
The class rules aren't a constraint for vang purchase. The distance between the boom and mast fittings is.
 
I don't want to get too far off the OP's thread, but I've added purchase without buying a new vang- lashing blocks on the sides.
 
Hi Shaelyn,

Here's my two cents. I'd go into the project considering the following, in priority order:

Hull. Given that it's 42 years old, it's worth checking if it's leaking. Do a bubble test (https://www.google.com/search?q=laser+hull+soap+bubble+test), and re-bed any leaking fittings with 3M 5200 sealant. If leaking through the mast step, use West System GFlex. Items to buy: dish soap, maybe 5200 ($10?), GFlex ($30?).

Finish: If your hull or blades have scratches, it might be worth wetsanding them smooth. Maybe $10 for sandpaper, and $10 for a sanding block. Buy at a hardware store so you don't pay marine stores prices.

Sail: This is a matter of personal preference, but I find it easier to get more out of a sail if I have telltales on them. Maybe $10 for wool telltales. Or get one of Mom and Dad's old cassette tapes, some electrical tape, and put them 7" aft of the luff and 7" below the first seam from the cunningham grommet.

OCVT: You can go with "old school" 1990s style rigging for your vang, outhaul, cunningham, and clew tie. Think single-braid spectra and thimbles. Items to buy: thimbles ($1 each?), maybe 30' of 1/8" spectra ($1/foot?). You'd want a swivel for your vang block ($30)? More at https://www.google.com/search?q=laser+old+school+rigging

Traveler: Vectran. Don't spend money on something like a spliced loop. Just tie a big loop. Maybe 10', at $1/foot.

Mainsheet: If you have the funds, get a Rooster mainsheet. 6mm if you're strong/sailing in light air; 7mm if you're in heavy air or (like me) tear up your hands easily.

Ask around! A lot of sailors that have been doing this for a while accumulate parts that they'd be happy to give to someone getting into the sport. For instance, I've probably got a bunch of 1/8" Spectra, an old ratchet block, and probably a vang swivel that haven been rattling around in my parts collection for decades. 5200 gets hard after a year.

Prices and lengths are just off the top of my head, so please check online for appropriate lengths. West Coast Sailing and Annapolis Performance Sailing both have good selections of Laser parts and knowledgeable staff.

Hope this helps.
 
Several good points from Al, disagree just on a few items...
Al Sargent said:
OCVT: You can go with "old school" 1990s style rigging for your vang, outhaul, cunningham, and clew tie. Think single-braid spectra and thimbles. Items to buy: thimbles ($1 each?), maybe 30' of 1/8" spectra ($1/foot?).
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Going "old school" all the way makes no sense. Let's face it, the pre-2001 rules were bad. Having loops in the ropes instead of blocks was just plain stupid. Small real blocks aren't prohibitively expensive. Please don't even think about the word "thimble" anymore.

Also, we're not limited to using a single piece of rope for each of the control systems anymore. 3 mm single-braid Dyneema (actual Spectra is rare) is great for the primary lines in the systems, but you need something thicker for the cleats (especially the old vang cleat) and your hands. Lots of inexpensive alternatives here.

Traveler: Vectran. Don't spend money on something like a spliced loop. Just tie a big loop. Maybe 10', at $1/foot.
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If you're not going to splice it, a double-braid with a Dyneema core is better.

Mainsheet: If you have the funds, get a Rooster mainsheet. 6mm if you're strong/sailing in light air; 7mm if you're in heavy air or (like me) tear up your hands easily.
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Rooster Polilite isn't awfully expensive. It's really not that special, either. Any 6 to 7 mm rope that is fairly stiff is good enough.
 
Thank you everyone for the help thus far.
cskudder said:
... and a big question is, are you racing + need to be class-legal, or just recreational? The answer to that will guide a whole lot of the suggestions, and of the costs.
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To clarify I only sail recreationally.
LaLi said:
It would be easiest to answer your question if you posted pictures of your current equipment. We could then make a quick priority list.
Click to expand...
My laser in BC right now and I am not but I can post some pics as soon as I get out there.
 
Hi Shaelyn,
Since you are "rec racing" I would agree with Mike's comments above. The first thing you need to know is if the water is staying where is belongs, namely on the outside. However, do NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES rebed fittings, etc. with 3M 5200. This is permanent stuff and unless you're not ever planning to remove it, don't do it. 4200 or Life Seal is more than adequate and is removable.

Once you have established the watertight integrity of the vessel, you can do a couple of things to make the controls easier to work. I have to find the link, but there is a way to get your old school vang an 8:1 purchase with just one additional block so that would be a very cheap and easy upgrade. Intensity sells an inexpensive Cunningham/outhaul upgrade which will bring the latter down to the deck. It makes for easier adjustment and you won't have that outhaul line dangling around your head. HTH.
 
Bungo Pete said:
...there is a way to get your old school vang an 8:1 purchase with just one additional block so that would be a very cheap and easy upgrade.
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8:1 is old school. If you're very light like the original poster you'd want at least a 12:1. There are at least two ways of getting that with adding two single blocks. (And lots of rope of course.)
...an inexpensive Cunningham/outhaul upgrade which will bring the latter down to the deck. It makes for easier adjustment and you won't have that outhaul line dangling around your head.
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The "new" deck equipment is not inexpensive, and not worth the money if you aren't adjusting your outhaul a lot. Moreover, the boom-cleated outhaul line doesn't "dangle" any more than a deck-cleated one. (In fact, it doesn't dangle at all aft of the cleat, although it's easier to catch a raised centerboard with it.)
 
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LaLi

1. One block is less expensive than two, and by the way, it's line, not rope.
2. Adjusting sail draft is very important if you're light, and playing it from the boom can be difficult and painful for a novice.
3. I could not find the image on Fred Schroth's site but, at one time there was a picture of a simple upgrade using two clam cleats and a block of wood or aluminum. It's easy to make up and even less expensive than the non-class legal ones.
 
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Line, rope, string, halyard, sheet, downhaul... whatever.
Pulley, block, round grooved thing that makes rope easier to pull around a corner...
As long as the message gets across.

How do we know if you meant a block (pulley) vs a block (kid's toy) vs a block (chunk of wood useful for building stuff)?
 
Bungo Pete said:
One block is less expensive than two
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And if the second block makes the system 50 % easier to pull it's totally worth its price.

and by the way, it's line, not rope.
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Google :D
Let's not go further into this in this thread, ok?

Adjusting sail draft is very important if you're light
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It's important for everyone. The outhaul, though, is not as important in adjusting it as one might think, as it affects only the lowest third or so of the sail plan.

playing it from the boom can be difficult and painful for a novice.
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Let's face it, if you don't race (or train for racing) you adjust the outhaul on shore and leave it there. If you race on a local level you want to let it off at the windward mark and then pull it back in for the next upwind leg, and that's it. If you can reach the mast (to which a boom-cleated outhaul should always be led) when going downwind you're all set.

at one time there was a picture of a simple upgrade using two clam cleats and a block of wood or aluminum.
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That was from a time when the cleat plate design wasn't finalized, 1999ish. Let's not go back there.
 
1. regarding one block or two is a cost-benefit analysis that will have to be done by the original poster. I was pointing out that it is possible to increase the purchase significantly at an absolute minimum cost.

2. The lower third of the sail generates the most power and as was pointed out earlier, Shaelyn is 16 and if a full rig is used, then it is possible that the vessel may be overpowered given the weight of the sailor. Thus, IMHO being able to de-power the lower quickly and efficiently is of importance.

3. RE: "Line, rope, string, halyard, sheet, downhaul... whatever.Pulley, block, round grooved thing that makes rope easier to pull around a corner...
As long as the message gets across. How do we know if you meant a block (pulley) vs a block (kid's toy) vs a block (chunk of wood useful for building stuff)?"
Feel free to impugn if it makes you feel good about yourself, but I will tell you that unlike most people you'll run across on this forum, I spent a good portion of my life going to sea for a living - and I do not mean as a professional yacht captain. Sailing merchant ships is a serious business which is why relatively few people can do it or do it very well. In my experience, both at sea and ashore, the use of proper language and vernacular in all forms of communication is the difference between amateurs & professionals, leaders and poltroons, the confident and the ineffectual, and finally in cases of extreme emergency, the living, the injured and the dead.
 
Most of us here are not professionals...

We aren't getting paid to sail our boats.

Picking on the minutia of someone calling a "line" a "rope" (When a person goes to the hardware store and the material on the spool is labeled rope...) is petty one-up-manship.

BTW... I WAS a professional. Naval Nuclear Power Plant Operator. And I used to go up and teach the Bosuns Mates strange knots, because I knew more about marlin-spike skills than the Master Chief.
 
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Bungo Pete said:
1. regarding one block or two is a cost-benefit analysis that will have to be done by the original poster. I was pointing out that it is possible to increase the purchase significantly at an absolute minimum cost.
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Of course. That's exactly the same that I am trying to say.

The lower third of the sail generates the most power
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No it doesn't. My local sailmaker has done a lot of cool computer visualizations of these sort of things (I'll try to post some later), and if I remember correctly, the area of greatest pressure on a fully-powered (main)sail lies just above halfway up the mast. That's where the heeling moment comes from, force times lever. And that's why adjusting the outhaul doesn't help much when overpowered. Sheeting out and flattening the whole sail with the vang does.

My point is that knowing things like this helps with one's priorities when on a limited budget (which I understand this thread is about). One such conclusion is that on a Laser an easily adjustable vang is more important than an easily adjustable outhaul.
 
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