To Mast Cleat or Not To Mast Cleat…

Saltydog87

Active Member
…that is the question!

Many threads have brought up the option of adding a mast cleat, but it may be good to have its own thread to discuss the pros and cons of adding one if your Sunfish doesn’t already have one for those weighing this option.
 
From what I’ve been seeing so far in threads, it seems that…
Pros:
- Can take stress off the deck cleat..?
- May help reduce the risk of rigging coming undone in a capsize (if someone can elaborate)…?
- Frees up the deck fairlead and cleat to alternatively be used for a vang rigging

Cons:
- Placement is important for class legality
- Limits gooseneck mobility, so placement needs to consider intended max sail height and gooseneck placement
 
Saltydog87

The standard rigging puts the load of the rig on the fairlead and cleat. On older boats with wood backers this has caused failures. Also, with standard rigging the mast is forced into the mast step which has caused failures and if the mast cap is missing is it like a router bit. I have seen boats missing the deck cleat as it pulled out and people jury rigging to sail so if they do capsize the rig could fall out. It does not clear up the fairlead or deck cleat the mast cleat is taking the load of the rig, you still have to take the tail to the fairlead and cleat.

If you vang, you are running the halyard that is deck cleated back to the fairlead over the gooseneck back to the fairlead and back to the deck cleat so there are a lot of line going to the fairlead and deck cleat.

Racing, the cleat has a a placement for legality and also practically. The mast cleat works for racers. We rig our sail to a certain height. We move the gooseneck between each race and are not limited in mobility. We are also putting huge loads on the fairlead with vang pressure so being able to remove the rig pressure to the mast and lessens the pull on the fairlead and the push in to the mast step. The mast cleat works for a standard race setup or jens or combination.
 
Thanks for the thorough response! Are there any practical disadvantages to the mast cleat, or should this be an absolutely recommended upgrade for boats that don’t yet have one?
 
I personally feel it should always be done. it’s a relatively cheap part and eliminates the majority of the halyard line pull on the deck.

There are some that feel it weakens the mast. As such, I’d mount it close to the 48” limit per the Sunfish class… gets it further away from the higher bending moments down near the gooseneck.
 
I’m going to link this thread, which had some great tips regarding adding the cleat:

 
I wouldn't loose sleep over this issue; for decades, a cleat wasn't legal and sailors did OK without it. But a cleat can be helpful IMHO (and I did install one).
 
There are some that feel it weakens the mast. As such, I’d mount it close to the 48” limit per the Sunfish class… gets it further away from the higher bending moments down near the gooseneck.
That would be me, writing in 2014 at Cleat on Mast

Confirmed this year by Lee Montes' YouTube at

Fast-forward to 6:30, where he describes a new "hack" which involves using only a short piece of line to reduce force on the deck cleat.

Watch long enough to view his one mast (of two masts) that has fractured at the mast cleat. :eek:
 
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I put a cleat on my Minifish because there is no block before the deck cleat and they have a tendency to pull out with a lot of upward force. Once I did it I found it makes things so much easier that I put one on the Sunfish.
One place it makes life easier is putting the sail up and down from the water.
I sail in Baja, and I will moor the boat 50 yards off the beach for the day so I can go out several times a day without dragging the boat up onto the beach each time. Raising or lowering the sail from the water with the jam cleat on the mast is much easier than with a deck cleat only.

-Andrew
 
That would be me, writing in 2014 at Cleat on Mast

Confirmed this year by Lee Montes' YouTube at

Fast-forward to 6:30, where he describes a new "hack" which involves using only a short piece of line to reduce force on the deck cleat.

Watch long enough to view his one mast (of two masts) that has fractured at the mast cleat. :eek:

I like this hack - and will undoubtedly try it - but I’m not sure that it would take as much force off the deck cleat as a mast cleat would. Unlike a mast cleat, it won’t take on 100% of the force, but rather set up for a 2:1 purchase with a slip knot higher on the halyard. It’s been a while since I have done pulley physics calculations, but it might reduce the force by 1/2…? Still a great and inexpensive alternative to the mast cleat!

Rewatching the video again, he does acknowledge that it is a force reduction and not 100% like the cleat. Then again, that may also help with the whole mast snapping concern.
 
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I added a mast cleat a few weeks ago and took it out for the first time two days ago. Worked like a charm. I had already previously replaced the single brass block at the deck (not a bullseye) with a double block, so now I can cleat the halyard on the mast, continue to the deck, up around the gooseneck, back to the deck, and finally cleat off behind the mast. Voila.
 
I installed mast cleats on both my 71 and 77. I find it easy to use and I like the idea of taking the pressure off of the deck fairlead. I just bought a 75 Minifish and will very likely put a mast cleat on it as well. Like Amfab said, the Minifish needs a mast cleat even more than a Sunfish because there is no deck fairlead. It is awkward to attach the halyard directly to the deck cleat.
 
I used 4cpus4me’s tip on sanding the foot of the cleat to match the curve of the mast. Also screws and 4200 to seal the holes
 
In my experience mast-breaking is a salt-water problem. Masts on freshwater boats don't seem to break. Although I do recall L and VW's boat getting hit by a Micro Burst :oops:that folded his mast like an old toothpick:eek:
Microbursts, like lightning, are hazards one should avoid while sailing.

Following a couple of hours prepping the Sunfish(es) and the rest of the fleet for Hurricane Henri, I stumbled on a brief discussion from my lake's forum. The following describes another's experience:
"I agree but I had a micro burst come thru out neighborhood a few years ago and it was like a mini tornado. It took a bunch of trees down and took the umbrella, which was folded, and it went in the air like a missile. We were sitting in front of the living room window and it sounded like a freight train was coming thru. Scared the ever living ***** out of my wife and I!
eek.gif
"

BTW: Hurricane Henri seems to have bypassed those of us in "The Great White North". 'Can't speak for our members in Connecticut or RI. :rolleyes:
 
That would be me, writing in 2014 at Cleat on Mast

Confirmed this year by Lee Montes' YouTube at

Fast-forward to 6:30, where he describes a new "hack" which involves using only a short piece of line to reduce force on the deck cleat.

Watch long enough to view his one mast (of two masts) that has fractured at the mast cleat. :eek:

Planning to try this Lee Montes “mast cleat replacement line” method on my mast this season. Anyone else try this already? I was debating about what weight capacity I should aim for in the line I use. I currently grabbed a woven nylon line that has a 124lb capacity. Woven should be easier to put an eye-splice in - I don’t have splicing fids - and I figured the booms and sail can’t be >124 lbs…right? Unsure how much force - if any - might be placed on this halyard pivot point due to wind though.
 
Saltydog, a line that can't take more than 124 lb (less than 60 daN) is very weak, and shouldn't be used where there are any non-trivial loads. Low-strength line is also very stretchy, making it extremely unsuitable for something like a halyard, which is under constant tension for hours at a time.
What Lee has there looks like something like 3 mm New England Endura 12, whose breaking load is more than 20 times that of your line.

Is an eye-spice legal for racing?
The class rules say nothing more than that lines "must be one continuous length of line of uniform diameter", which I'd take as a "no". For comparison, the Laser rules have the additional text "may vary in thickness for the purpose of a splice".

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Saltydog, a line that can't take more than 124 lb (less than 60 daN) is very weak, and shouldn't be used where there are any non-trivial loads. Low-strength line is also very stretchy, making it extremely unsuitable for something like a halyard, which is under constant tension for hours at a time.
What Lee has there looks like something like 3 mm New England Endura 12, whose breaking load is more than 20 times that of your line.

The class rules say nothing more than that lines "must be one continuous length of line of uniform diameter", which I'd take as a "no". For comparison, the Laser rules have the additional text "may vary in thickness for the purpose of a splice".

_

I wasn’t sure on the load needs - hence my question. Thanks for answering! Thanks also for pointing out a woven with a higher tensile rating.

In Lee’s video, it sounded like these were going to be legal as an alternative to a mast cleat. He was recommending an loop [which I had interpreted as an eye splice] +\- a thimble.
For clarification, this isn’t putting an eye splice in the halyard itself.

Rewatching his video again, it looks like he may have used a hangman’s knot. This may be an easier alternative to doing an eye splice. Anyone else try this? Did you use a knot?
 
The current class rules have been in force since 1 January 2021. Reading the halyard purchase line rule (C.9.2 h)) now, it clearly says optional thimbles or rings have to be tied to the line. No splicing. (Tape isn't allowed on this part of the mast, either!)

What Lee is using looks like a simple overhand loop:

IMG_0078.jpg
IMG_0080.jpg


Would of course be best if Lee himself came here to clarify these things :)

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