Tilted mast -- common condition? Worth fixing?

[baldessariclan]

Our boat's mast step is misaligned such that when the mast is installed, it leans quite a bit towards the right side of the boat. Haven't done an exact measurement, but it looks like the mast top is at least a foot or more to right of centerline when hull of boat is level -- pretty noticable lean when you see it. Was just curious if other people have seen this in their boat's at all, and if anybody bothers with trying to fix it.

A few more details: There is an inspection port installed just behind splashguard, so I can see the mast step's base, and it is secure and looks original/factory. If anything, looks like maybe the top deck of the boat (or maybe just the mast hole) was misaligned about 1/2" - 1" to the right during initial assembly (?). This is a 1977 boat, and I'm sure quality control wasn't always perfect on these craft, but this seems like a lot of lean nonetheless.

Was just curious how common this sort of condition is -- anybody else see this sort of thing and/or try to fix it? Cut/relocate bottom portion of mast step? Or if left "as is", would it really affect the boat's performance/sailing feel much (other than looks)?

 

[Webfoot]

I could be wrong but if the mast is not bent I think there is a "missing element" here somewhere to be found. Perhaps the mast tube broke loose and was reglued at one time by pouring epoxy down the mast hole? Just a wild guess.

 

[Wayne]

Our boat's mast step is misaligned such that when the mast is installed, it leans quite a bit towards the right side of the boat.

That's the first case of its type I've heard of in over 40 years, where there wasn't something obviously broken.

Would you post some pictures like maybe one of the mast set in it's tube as seen from behind the boat and one each of the mast tube where it attaches to the deck and the hull bottom?

 

[Webfoot]

Well, I have seen other manufactures make mistakes. To get the product out the door they usually cut a deal for the dealer or customer. Whether the dealer passes on the price break to the customer is another matter.

 

[baldessariclan]

That's the first case of its type I've heard of in over 40 years, where there wasn't something obviously broken.

Would you post some pictures like maybe one of the mast set in it's tube as seen from behind the boat and one each of the mast tube where it attaches to the deck and the hull bottom?

Darn, was hoping it was a more common thing... I never really noticed it until somebody put the mast in while boat was still on the trailer. On the beach, everything is tilted anyways, so not so obvious if you weren't looking for it.

Don't really think that it's from damage / botched fix -- really just looks like the original factory installation to me. Top hole is obviously original, and bottom of mast step is right in the middle of the keel. Looking from the front, it appears that the mast hole in the top cover is not aligned with the line of the keel.

Ok, so how do I easily post pictures on this forum? I don't know how to do "HTML" stuff...

 

[Webfoot]

OK, try this. Take a tape measure and measure from the edge of the mast hole to the rub rail, then measure the other way. Not sure how much extra flange material they trim off after joining the deck/hull. It would only have to be off a little bit to tilt the mast.

 

[Wayne]

Darn, was hoping it was a more common thing... it appears that the mast hole in the top cover is not aligned with the line of the keel.

Not totally out of the question, but given the molds and alignment jigs we've seen in the factory tour photo essay, it looks like it would be a glaring error. I'd expect any reputable shop to simply discard the mismolded piece rather than damaging their reputation by selling a second. We could speculate ad nauseum... so let's see what your pictures show.

Ok, so how do I easily post pictures on this forum? I don't know how to do "HTML" stuff...

If your photos are in a public photo album on the net, use the Insert Image button above the reply window.

If the photos are stored on your computer

• When you reply, below the "reply" window is a section labeled "Additional Options". In the second box of this section is a button labled [Manage Attachments] ... click on it.
  
• A window will open on your screen,
• In that window are 5 entry lines immediately followed by buttons labeled [Browse]
• Click the Browse button for the first line and browse on your computer to your photos
• When you find the photo you want, highlight it and click the button in the lower right of the browse window labeled [Open]
  
• Repeat this for each photo you wish to upload.
  
• Once all the photos are in the list, click the [Upload] button to the right of the 5th entry line.
  
• Close the attachment window.

 

[baldessariclan]

Ok, I'm attempting to post some pics here. If you can see these, note that in the one showing the top of the mast step from the inside, the new white epoxy and through bolting are fixes I've done (old wood blocks had split / fallen), but all else is original. Likewise on the bottom, there is some new expanding foam in there (secured loose aft end of port forward block), but otherwise all else is original.











Measuring across top deck at mast hole, I get a 39-1/2" span, with middle of mast hole about at 19-7/8". so definitely not perfectly centered, but still doesn't seem that far off... Maybe keel is off one way a little, and top off a little the other way -- ??

 

[Wayne]

Ok, I'm attempting to post some pics here. If you can see these...

The photos show up for me just fine.

The mast itself is straight, right?

That is an odd one, though nothing is jumping out at me beyond the obvious list to starboard.

When you look down the tube at its base (it's ugly down there compared to the cosmetic parts), does everything appear symmetric and concentric?

The consequence of the tilt is going to be the attitude of the hull in relation to the strength of the wind. It will be heeled over a little less on port tack and a little more on starboard tack.

You'll have to be the judge if this makes sailing the boat feel strange.

Should you decide to correct the mast's camber, I think cutting it free at the bottom and shifting that end of the tube will be the easiest solution.

 

[Webfoot]

Might be interesting to call Vanguand and say, "I have a SF the is factory flawed, could you help me out even though I'm not the first owner?" Worst that could happen is they say "no".

 

[Alan Glos]

If the mast hole is centered or close to it, the base of the mast step has to be off centerline. The fact that there is an inspection port suggests that the mast step broke, the previous owner installed the port and botched the repair job. I suggest that you cut the mast step flush with the keel with a sharp hacksaw blade, use the mast as a lever to reposition the base of the mast step to true and reattach the step with fiberglass cloth and thickened epoxy. It is really not that hard a fix. Like the other responders, I have never heard of a factory flaw like this.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY

 

[baldessariclan]

If the mast hole is centered or close to it, the base of the mast step has to be off centerline. The fact that there is an inspection port suggests that the mast step broke, the previous owner installed the port and botched the repair job. I suggest that you cut the mast step flush with the keel with a sharp hacksaw blade, use the mast as a lever to reposition the base of the mast step to true and reattach the step with fiberglass cloth and thickened epoxy. It is really not that hard a fix. Like the other responders, I have never heard of a factory flaw like this.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY

Actually, I think you just put the factory flaw question to rest, since when I bought the boat last fall, it had NO inspection ports in it -- I put them in over the winter (wanted some extra storage space, plus suspected (correctly) hull needed some drying out). So pics of inside of hull have to be the way it looked when built (duh! I'm not too quick sometimes...). I did do the repairs to the foam blocks and wooden cleat/bullseye anchors as mentioned earlier, but I've never touched the mast step. Looks "normal" / "factory" on the inside as well, far as I can tell (concentric holes, normal finish, etc.).

Well, sorry to hear that I got the one flawed boat. Nobody else at all has a (slightly?) crooked mast hole?!? Weird. May not be that evident if you don't specifically check for it, though. Like I said, never noticed it until kids put mast in hole while boat was on the trailer.

So was/is there some sort of lifetime warranty on these boats for factory defects (per the suggestion to call Vanguard about the problem)?

 

[Webfoot]

If you shift the deck then however much the mast hole is offset has to be multiplied by 2 since the keel has shifted in the other direction, (the mast tube is not remaining vertical with the offset deck since its is attached to the keel). So, the mast tube is on the centerline of the deck and the centerline of the keel, we just have two offset centerlines. Putting the mast straght will put the base of the mast tube off the keel centerline, however, I don't think it would affect the way the boat sails.


Common place for a inspection hole to repair the mast would be in front of the mast. Trying to reach the mast tube from behind the splashguard would be difficult.

If I were to try and straghten the mast tube, I'd find another SF so a Jig could be made. The Jig would be a 2 1/4 PVC pipe that fits into the mast tube. Fastened to the pipe sticking up from the mast tube would be plywood shaped to the contour of deck running from beam to beam. Another piece plywood attached to the pipe would run from bow to splash guard. The whole thing would look like a big "T" shape on top of a pipe.

Ain't this forum great?!?

 

[Zeppo]

One of your photos showing the mast tube clearly indicates that the base of the mast tube is well off center. The base being closer to the port side than the starboard side, hence the mast lean to starboard. This will affect performance, especially in light air when the lean of the mast will cause the sail to fall towards the starboard side, thus giving it the appearance of having backwinded.

 

[baldessariclan]

Well, we have been using this boat for recreational sailing so far, and I don't notice any really big performance issues (that I'm aware of, anyways) from the tilted mast. So I'll probably put off any repairs until the end of season (if ever). Just looks funny, and suppose would affect the retail value of the boat if we ever try to sell it uncorrected.

So what does the bottom of the mast step look like, and does it fit down into the groove of the keel? Or is there a gap of some sort between the bottom of the boat (or keel groove) and the bottom of the mast step, if you were to peel / cut away the layers of fiberglass cloth wrapping around the bottom of the mast tube and boat bottom? I assume that this area has to have/be a pretty strong connection, so would like to know how it's supposed to be set up. Have to think on it before starting any cutting...

 

[Wayne]

So what does the bottom of the mast step look like, and does it fit down into the groove of the keel? Or is there a gap of some sort between the bottom of the boat (or keel groove) and the bottom of the mast step, if you were to peel / cut away the layers of fiberglass cloth wrapping around the bottom of the mast tube and boat bottom? I assume that this area has to have/be a pretty strong connection, so would like to know how it's supposed to be set up. Have to think on it before starting any cutting...

The mast tube bottom is fiberglassed directly to the keel, centered and held prependicular by a fixture during construction. Heres some pictures of current lay-up. I have one of the process during the AMF days and the jig equipment looks the same.

From The Sunfish Forum Knowledge Base

The hull behind this one has the alignment fixtures still in place

Deck mold showing the built-in "boss" that becomes the
interlocking flange for the top of the mast tube.

​

 

[Fred P]

I may be oversimplifying this but why not put some type of spacer in the mast tube to tilt the mast to vertical? The spacer needn't be very large for the amount of tilt I see in the photos.
The only problem with this might be the mast rubbing on the top of the tube or not enough clearance at the top of the tube. The mast can be put in the tube each time in a different position to avoid wear on only one side.

Fred

 

[Webfoot]

Ah, the direct approach, I like it. How about packing the mast with sand and bending it around a car wheel?

 

[Wavedancer]

Ah, the direct approach, I like it. How about packing the mast with sand and bending it around a car wheel?

Not my recommendation....

More in general, I do recommend to just live with the slightly tilted mast. Since you sail recreationally, there is no need to do anything major to the mast step.

 

[baldessariclan]

Ok, have tried shimming the mast at where it meets the top and bottom of the mast step hole. Just used some layered electrical tape (on opposite sides at top and bottom). Helps some -- maybe reduces lean by about a quarter of what it originally was (w/ max. shimming -- i.e. where it will still fix through the mast hole in the top). Good idea, nonetheless. I think I'll avoid trying to bend the mast directly, though...

At this point, we'll continue to sail the boat as-is for rest of season, and then consider / decide if I want to dive into a "fixit" project for this condition. If anybody else notices this sort of thing in their boat and/or comes up w/ another fix idea, please let me know.

Thanks for all the help and ideas so far everybody!