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Tiller advice please

Windhound

New Member
Hi.
I have an annoying problem with my carbon tiller on my Laser Standaed, in that the tiller rubs on the knot of the traveler rope when it passes over it.
There is a little movement play up and down on the rudder when wiggling the tiller. I thought the gudgeons might have been worn, but this still occurs after i changed them out for new ones.
Is the only way to avoid this to make the traveler triangle larger thus moving the knot further away from the rudder?
The traveler knot is already pressed quite flat from the tiller moving over it. The traveler rope is 5mm S12 Dyneema.
Does adding a flat washer to each pintle help by raising the tiller slightly?
Has anyone else experienced this and have a solution?
 

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LaLi

Well-Known Member
It would be good to see the type and location of the knot.
All Laser rudders wiggle because the pintle/gudgeon connection isn't very tight. Can't do anything to that.
But you can add spacers, which may be the easiest solution.
Also, you can splice the line instead of knotting. Easy to do on a single-braid, if that's what you have.
I've had many tillers but never experienced that. Doesn't your tiller rub against the gunwale? How far is your top gudgeon from it?

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Windhound

New Member
Hi. The tiller currently does'nt rub on the top of the transom (although it does show some wear from the previous owner.)
The traveler line has a spliced loop to one end and a simple overhand knot to complete the triangle. Thus the knot is as small as it can be avoiding using a bowline etc.
 

Windhound

New Member
Raising the gudgeons wont work as the holes are already in place, so maybe a combination of flat spacers, and making a deeper traveler triangle will help.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Ok, so you have the same "architecture" that I do. You can get it even lower if it's only spliced, that is, the whole triangle would be one spliced loop. Would make it a kind of a semi-permanent structure.

Don't change the triangle angles, you want that to be as "flat" as possible to get the best purchase.

The spacers are beginning to sound like the best solution.

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Windhound

New Member
Actually thanks, I hadn't considered splicing the traveler in semi permanently and thus removing the overhand knot completely.
Last resort before attaching some flat spacers with a little silicon.
 

old man laser

New Member
If you do not have a spliced eye in the traveler line then I assume that you are tying a bowline to form the loop through which you secure the traveler line. If that is the case then it is the knot from the bowline that is rubbing against the tiller. To solve this issue tie a larger loop in the bowline. This effectively moves the knot away from the centerline of the boat and to an area where the tiller will pass right over the knot.
 

HelgeS

New Member
Move the knot over to one side. Then you will have a no-knot angulation of the rudder, maybe 30degr. before hitting the knot.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Old man and Helge, Windhound has an eye-splice + overhand knot attachment (read post #3 :rolleyes: ). Nothing to move from the centreline.

With a 5 mm line, Windhound's knot stands about 15 mm above the deck surface. I actually have a sheet bend -type knot there and it's about the same size. A splice only is something like 11 mm, so the difference isn't huge, but possibly enough to solve the problem.

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LaLi

Well-Known Member
Helge, that won't work. The line wants to take the shortest route between the knot and the cleat, which is along the centreline. Friction from the fairleads keeps the knot from moving there immediately and all the way when you pull the sheet (or the traveller itself), but it definitely won't stay for long at the position in your picture.

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HelgeS

New Member
It works, just give it a try. Had the same problem. Maybe not so much on the side - just a little. I have tied a knot in the loop.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
If so, it means that "work" doesn't include getting the traveller tight enough, or even keeping consistent tension on it.

That old-model LP tiller of Windhound's was shaped rather interestingly (see Laser XD Carbon Tiller with extension for more). Does it sweep lower than other tillers? This may be one reason it was discontinued.
Contradicting myself a bit now, but moving the knot/splice forward (as you initially suggested) wouldn't be the worst thing to do. Of course you'd lose some purchase, but it would certainly be the simplest and fastest solution, at least temporarily.

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chris williams

Active Member
If so, it means that "work" doesn't include getting the traveller tight enough, or even keeping consistent tension on it.

That old-model LP tiller of Windhound's was shaped rather interestingly (see Laser XD Carbon Tiller with extension for more). Does it sweep lower than other tillers? This may be one reason it was discontinued.

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I have used that XD tiller for years. It’s great. Just last year it wore enough in the tiller head so it started bumping against my knot, which is small. I glued a very small shim on the tiller when it fits into the rudder head and problem solved.
 

HelgeS

New Member
Made a correction, first I tie it up tight, then skeew a bit sideways. The knot is not in center, and most of the time you only do small rudder movements, so it is nice to not have any distortion of the rudder feeling. IMG_20211120_135519.jpg
 
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