Thinking of purchasing a Hobie Holder 14

Thread starter #1
Hey does anyone know about the hobie holder? I was going to pick up a Sunfish the other day, but now I am thinking about one of these. I found one a few hours away looks like it is a little rough. Anything I should look out for? Shouldn’t be too hard to paint over the filler used right? I believe the owner said it comes with original sails but they are in good condition
 

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#2
Hey I have one of those!

Love that boat, very, very simple rig. When we got ours, it was water-tight around the bottom of the hull, however, the first time we turtled it we drained an unimaginable amount of water from the hull :eek:.

We fit at least 6 cousins in the boat at one point and sailed all day like that (ages 10-50).

We have got the boat planning on a broad reach, it’s pretty quick once you get out of the water.

Ours came with a trailer, main and jib and we payed around 600 for everything if your looking for a benchmark mark. You could probably lower it significantly due to the repairs, and depending on the condition of the sails.

Check the overall stiffness of the hull, soft spots will tell you the soundness of the underlying structure, and possibly water damage. Ours has a soft tank, but that’s probably due to repeatedly stepping in the same spot for a few years. Rig tensioning is also a factor for soft fiberglass.

I’d say, if the sails are good, the hull is sound and it’s at a reasonable price, go for it.

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Thread starter #3
There isn't too much information about these boats around the web since their production years were limited. I am worried about finding parts for the boat in the future. I have also read of many owners complaining about water in the hull. Seller is 6-7 hours away and asking $800 and pretty firm on the price. It looks like the previous owner did a quick filler repair without any fiberglass repair underneath. I have never done any fiberglass repair myself other than on my surfboards, but I am thinking about repainting the entire boat myself as well. Perhaps I should just make the repairs and sail it.
 
#4
I did notice, though, that the boat in the picture has a dagger board, rather than a fully enclosed swinging centreboard, which is present on my Holder.

The water that we found in our hull was due to the seem between the top and bottom parts of the hull. As long as the bottom hull is sound, you shouldn’t have a lot of water in the boat (unless you turtle it, which is a rare event).

What parts are you worried about? Most fittings on our boat is pretty standard, or at least can be replaced with standard fittings (not that we broke any...).
 
#5
Holder Information


“Nearly the same as the VAGABOND 14. Vagabond was purchased by Coast Catamaran in 1982 (builders of the Hobie Cat and owned by Coleman Company Inc.) and called the HOBIE ONE-14.
Also sold as the O'DAY 14 and the MONARCH 14.
Rig dimension (I,J,P,E) shown here are actually for HOLDER 14 MKII.”

Try looking at these boats as well for parts, they seem very similar.
 
Thread starter #6
This is the Holders predecessor the Vagabond 14 so the design might vary a little. I am more worried about the damage to the hull than anything.
 
#7
My first sailboat was a Vagabond 14. I had a lot of fun with it, especially for someone who didn't really know a lot about sailing at the time. I would haul it to the campsite with my college buddies and we'd have a blast. Easy to raise the mast. I could launch at the ramp or launch straight from the beach at the campsite. Lightweight, easy to right when you capsize. I paid $700 in 1996. Added running lights and a small trolling motor. Sold her a couple years later for $900.
 

Ghost Rider

Planing into eternity...
#9
Well, didja pick up the boat? If so, you should definitely repair the glass, I would get rid of that filler cr@p and take it down to bare resin, then fair it out just a little bit so the next resin & glass will bond well. You can fill those cracks & small holes with cut up fiberglass matt, once ya load the holes up with resin... then start laying down cloth cut to the specs you need. If you're building up an appreciable amount, then alternate layers of matt & cloth, being sure to eliminate all air bubbles as you go. Same for wrapping glass round a compound curve: you don't want any air bubbles in there, just solid built-up layers of matt & cloth. If you've done surfboard repairs, you know that boards take a lighter weight of cloth, whereas heavier weights of cloth are MO' BETTAH for boat hulls. For example, use 10-oz. cloth instead of 6-oz., and alternate the layers with matt... I always started with matt on any hull repair, a thin layer impregnated with resin seemed to offer a better "footing" for the first layer of cloth, so it was less likely to delaminate later. :confused:

There's no reason on this good earth why ya can't effect a hull repair which is equally strong or stronger than the original glass. Afterward, some gelcoat or paint, in your case I would suggest two-part linear polyurethane primer & topcoats, minimum two coats of each product... you can spray it or brush it (if you're on a budget, as I often was). Won't make any difference in appearance once you're 50 yards offshore, and as far as performance goes, well, I suppose you could wax the hull, maybe clear coat it instead, LOL. Purists may not like the wax idea, but we used every trick in the book back in the day. Hey, you can also sand that daggerboard and varnish it... if ya can't get rid of the ugly, then paint it, LOL. Same goes for the rudder, which I did not notice in the pics. Varnished wood always looks good, but if the wood is too far gone in terms of making it look sweet again, just sand it, fill the cracks & paint it, AYE? The boat will still look good, I've gone both routes more times than I can remember, and I say that as a lifelong small craft sailor & glassworker whose best friend's family owned & operated the first & oldest surf shop in my home town for over three decades. :rolleyes:

Don't be afraid of a little glasswork in making repairs to your boat, especially if you've already repaired boards, yeah? Trick is to sand or grind as needed, wipe the area clean with acetone, mask the surrounding area, lay out your trimmed pieces of matt & cloth so they're handy, mix small pots of resin & catalyst in the quantities you need so ya don't waste too much, work steadily once ya mix the pots by brushing on some resin, putting down layers of matt & cloth, then carefully using the brush or small squeegee to smooth out air bubbles as you go. Don't forget to cut up matt to fill those cracks and holes at the outset, you don't wanna cut stuff up once the pot o' resin is going off, LOL. These glass jobs are probably 80% prep work, 20% actual glasswork, as long as you've prepped carefully your task should be fairly simple. Make that 15% glasswork and 5% beer. Some guys like wearing gloves, I always kept some clean rags and a can of acetone handy, even though acetone is bad for your skin---whatever ya do, don't get it in your eyes, LOL. :eek:

Oh, yeah, don't sweat any f$%-ups in glasswork, the good news is that once it's hardened you can always go back and sand or grind it down as necessary, though you should be fine as long as you've prepped carefully. You may have to do some light sanding as needed between layers, just a touch here & there, otherwise you'll keep removing what you've built up, like Sisyphus and his rolling stone, LOL... no Corinthians here, AYE??? If you're actually from Greece (and Corinth in particular), then forgive me, I spent five years in Greece ('68-'73) as a youth, and those five years were some of the best in my life. But that is another story... oh, yeah, forgive my tedious sermonizing upon glasswork, I have nothing better to do on a rainy night here in the White Mountains. Got no problem with the rain, it's good for the forest and it helps cut down the wildfire danger later in the year... and if my destiny involves driving to the store for more beer, well, there's a Circle K a few short blocks away, and I can take the backdoor route (used by locals in this subdivision) so I avoid Hwy. 260, no worries. :cool:

GOOD LUCK WITH THE REPAIRS!!! THAT IS, IF YOU WENT AHEAD & BOUGHT THE BOAT... FORGOT TO MENTION THAT 70 DEGREES FARENHEIT IS GOOD FOR CURING RESIN OR PAINT, IF YOU'RE IN THE FROZEN NORTH MAYBE YOU CAN COMMANDEER THE GARAGE AND USE HEATERS, LOL. ;)

EDIT: IF YOU'RE DOING WORK INSIDE THE HULL AND THE AREA IS WET, YOU CAN WIPE IT AND USE A BLOW DRYER TO TOTALLY ELIMINATE MOISTURE... YOU DON'T WANT WATER IN THE MIX, NO ES BUENO... :(
 
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Ghost Rider

Planing into eternity...
#10
WAIT, ONE MORE THING: IF YOU'RE RELATED TO THE MOB, YOU CAN USE A FEW DEAD BODIES TO FILL IN THOSE CRACKS & HOLES, AYE??? KINDA LIKE JIMMY HOFFA IN THE STADIUM CEMENT, DON'TCHA KNOW??? :confused:
 
Thread starter #11
I picked up the boat. So far I refinished the rudder and dagger board....and that was a good 3-4 day project in between sanding and layers of epoxy/varnish. I think I might wait until I get around sailing to boat a few times before I consider the glass work and paining. That seems like it would be a lonnng project. I have been looking at fiberglass repair on youtube, but they always make it look so much easier than it is. I thought refinishing the rudder and dagger board would be easy, but it was much more work than I anticipated. If I were to do the fiberglass repair...which fiberglass would you recommend? There are so many options as far as pattern/direction etc.
 

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Ghost Rider

Planing into eternity...
#12
Speaking for myself, I would NOT sail the boat until the glass repairs were made, otherwise water could get in those cracks and holes and promote further "glass rot." Painting can wait if you're dead set upon sailing the boat first, but again, I personally would finish the entire hull before going sailing. I'd also inspect the spars, rigging, deck fittings and other marine hardware aboard the boat very closely, since I don't know the true history of the craft. Better to do it right for reasons of marine safety, but that's just my opinion... beats being dismasted & capsized in the center of the channel as a large warship or freighter bears down upon ya, angrily sounding five blasts, LOL. :eek:

Now, I'm thinking this older hull of yours was constructed with polyester resin, commonly used on boat hulls of that era. I would suggest that you use the same resin, as it is cheaper than epoxy resin. Epoxy resin is stronger, no doubt, and it will adhere to underlying polyester resin, but there are gelcoat issues (which won't really matter if you're gonna paint the boat), and unless you're planning on thrashing hard with this hull, polyester resin will be sufficiently strong if it is properly reinforced. Again, and I can't stress this enough, the back of any glass repair job is broken through meticulous preparation. This begins with grinding & sanding away all damaged areas, removing the rot so you can get a good bond. :)

As for the type of material you want to use, start by eliminating what you do NOT need: carbon fiber, for instance, which is heller expensive & generally reserved for repairing existing carbon fiber hulls... one glance at your boat and carbon fiber can be crossed off the list. Woven roving, which is generally used for heavy reinforcement of much thicker hulls than yours... not suitable for the repairs you need to make. Great. Now we're down to matt & various weights of cloth. BTW, what I call matt is commonly referred to nowadays as "chopped strand mat" or CSM, according to a couple sites I glanced at to refresh my memory. Now, my best friend Tommy is a master glassworker, he would use cloth weights of 6 oz. or less when repairing surfboards. For boat repairs, I always preferred a heavier weight of cloth, but that was for a good reason... :rolleyes:

You see, I used to work as Sail Hut Attendant at the Naval Sailing Club in Fiddler's Cove, and I also used to help repair boat hulls there. The novices who practiced landings during instructional courses every Saturday morning had a bad habit of ramming the dock at considerable speed, which invariably led to impact and stress cracks on the bows of the boats. Repairs made with lighter weights of cloth didn't cut it, repairs made with heavier weights of cloth lasted longer, and that's all there was to it. Now, I'm not ruling out your use of, say, 6 oz. cloth if you're dealing with a minor repair, or if you're trying to get a better "wrap" around a compound curve. You can always beef up the cloth weight later once the initial layers are down. :oops:

Moi, just about every hull repair I ever made was done with alternate layers of matt & 10 oz. cloth... the only time I went with lighter cloth was under the circumstances I already mentioned, and in those situations I would simply run up to the surf shop and bum some scraps from "T-Bone" (or Tommy, my best friend). BTW, if ya happen to know anyone who works with glass, whether it's surfboard repair or heavier marine applications, ya might be able to bum some scraps, though ya still wanna start your own hull repairs with matt, either in a layer or chopped up further to fill those cracks & holes. If ya don't know anyone, ya might walk into a shop or yard toward the end of the day and ask... in a shop, the gift of a pack of cold beer might lead to all the cloth scraps you'll ever need, LOL. ;)

Those repairs of yours look minor, but I would still get them done BEFORE going sailing, but again, that's just my opinion. Every sailor wants to get out on the water, that's a no-brainer, but patience is a virtue, the payoff later will be good in terms of peace of mind, marine safety, etc., etc. Moi, I always wanted my boat to look good as well, which is why I pulled the complete overhaul whenever hull repairs had to be made. By this, I mean existing repairs which needed to be done when I first obtained a boat... I'm not in the habit of destroying hulls once they're in my possession, LOL. If I were you, I would keep the costs down and simply go with polyester resin, polyester matt & cloth, linear polyurethane primer & topcoat(s), then replace whatever fittings or marine hardware need to be replaced or upgraded. Line too, I never did like old cr@ppy lines aboard my boat. :confused:

Oh, yeah, about those sails, if they're still serviceable you can simply wash them and put them to good use... I used to wash mine on a clean concrete slab, using a small amount of gentle detergent and a large sponge or soft brush, then hose off each side and hang the sails to dry on an improvised clothes line in my back yard. I'm sure some heroes can chime in here and offer better suggestions, LOL. Even with some synthetic fibers, washing & drying can lead to the fibers "tightening up" a bit and making the sail stronger... this also applies to ropes used in technical rock climbing, but that's another story. No worries, washing sails is easy & inexpensive, and the worst that can happen is your sails look better, aye? Or if the sailcloth is rotten, it'll rip and let ya know ya need new sails... better to have that happen on dry land than out on the water, LOL. With glasswork, water is NOT a desirable element, be sure those cracks & holes are completely dry before you apply any resin, and use a blow dryer to air out any questionable cracks, holes, seams, etc. If you can't find any matt in your area, you can use scissors to cut up cloth and create "filler" for cracks & holes. :cool:

ENOUGH TEDIOUS SERMONIZING FOR ONE DAY, TIME TO GET CLEANED UP AND MAKE A BEER RUN... NEVER DID GO IN THE RAIN LAST NIGHT, IT WASN'T WORTH THE TROUBLE. :D
 
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Thread starter #13

Ghost Rider

Planing into eternity...
#14
If you already have some leftover resin, yeah, that epoxy resin will bond to the polyester resin with which your boat hull was probably constructed. Question is, will that Marine Tex bond well to the epoxy? Better read the label, and of course you'll let the epoxy resin totally cure before putting any product on top of it. The matt & cloth are fine, just what I used back in the day when I was repairing hulls. Again, I'm not ruling out the use of lighter weight cloth, some of those repair areas on your hull look really minor, you may not need to build them up so high before you sand them, aye? For the same reason of minor repair areas, you won't need the roller, just use a brush or a rubber squeegee, or both, the Home Depot has those little handheld rubber squeegees for a low price. No point in wasting money on a roller unless you're repairing large surface areas of the hull, you understand... better to spend the money on beer, LOL. Remember, start with the matt on surface areas, and use scissors to cut up matt or cloth as "filler" for those holes & cracks I saw in your pics. Be sure to cut up enough, it'll shrink as it gets wet with resin and you compress it slightly to eliminate all air bubbles. Use whatever tools it takes to get that prior filler crap outta there first, you want resin to bond to resin, not to some other junk that won't provide a strong, lasting bond. A rasp, driver, or even a knife may help you clean up those cracks & holes, 10-4? Don't get all gripped, it's not rocket science... if it is, they're not payin' you enough, LOL. :confused:

CHEERS!!! REMEMBER, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ALL THE REPAIRS AT ONCE, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO EACH REPAIR ALL AT ONCE EITHER... BUT YOU'LL HAVE TO MIX MORE POTS OF RESIN IF YOU STRETCH OUT THE JOB. PREPARATION IS THE KEY, AND KNOWING ROUGHLY HOW MUCH "WORKING LIFE" YOU HAVE WITH EACH RESIN POT YOU MIX. :rolleyes:

FOLLOW WEBFOOT1'S ADVICE, MIX RESIN & CATALYST (MEK) IN CORRECT PROPORTIONS, AND ONLY MIX AS MUCH AS YOU'LL NEED FOR EACH REPAIR, MAYBE JUST A TAD MORE IN CASE YOU NEED IT, RIGHT? IF YOU CONTINUALLY WIND UP WITH POTS HALF FULL OF RESIN GETTIN' SOLID ON YA, YOU'RE F#%G UP, LOL. :eek:

YOU CAN DO THIS... I HAVE FAITH IN YOU, LOL. DON'T GET ALL GRIPPED AS SOON AS YOU STIR THE RESIN POT, CALM DOWN AND DO EVERYTHING JUST AS YOU PLANNED. WRITE OUT THE STEPS IF YOU NEED TO AND TAPE 'EM UP IN FRONT OF YOU IF NECESSARY. ONCE YOU SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETE THESE MINOR REPAIRS, YOU CAN MOVE ON TO BIGGER & BETTER THINGS, LIKE SAVING THE WORLD FOR DEMOCRACY, LOL. ;)

AGAIN, CHEERS!!! AND DON'T FORGET THE BEER!!! LOL. :cool:

Edit: Masking is also important, particularly if the cracks or holes extend through the hull... you don't want your expensive resin leaking out the backside of your repair. I could probably make a crude joke here, but out of respect for this family website, I shall NOT do so, LOL. :D

Edit: Just looked at the pics again, and those stress cracks under your mast step bear closer inspection. Might wanna sand or grind those down and redo that area as well... kinda hard to tell how deep the cracks are, but I would certainly deal with the problem now before it gets any worse. Extra work, yes, but worth it for the peace of mind. If they are shallow, ya might get away with cleaning 'em up and dumping some resin in there. If they run deep, you wanna take care of 'em now, just for peace of mind and marine safety.
 
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Thread starter #15
You know the damage looks like it is pretty much just chipped under the filler. Anyway to determine if I can just use the marine Tex on some? Also with the holes being so small I don’t know if I can use both the mat and cloth? Do you usually use the cloth on the outside?
 

Ghost Rider

Planing into eternity...
#16
Just looked at the pics again, and those stress cracks under your mast step may bear closer inspection... if they run deep, you'll wanna sand or grind that area and rebuild the glass so it's solid. If they're shallow, you might get away with cleaning 'em up and dumping some resin in there. I would certainly address the problem now before it gets any worse. Extra work, yes, but worth it for peace of mind and marine safety, aye? :cool:
 
Thread starter #17
So I’m guessing there is a block of wood under the fiberglass to secure the mast step bracket? Hard to tell how deep the cracks run
 

Ghost Rider

Planing into eternity...
#18
You know the damage looks like it is pretty much just chipped under the filler. Anyway to determine if I can just use the marine Tex on some? Also with the holes being so small I don’t know if I can use both the mat and cloth? Do you usually use the cloth on the outside?
The smaller holes, you may be able to simply clean 'em up, load 'em with resin, and stuff cut-up matt or cloth in there until ya know there are no air bubbles. Build 'em up enough to sand 'em level with the surrounding hull. I'm not familiar with Marine Tex, that may be a product that came after my time... remember, I was glassing hulls back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, LOL. :eek:

The larger damaged area does indeed look as if it could be ground & faired out, then wrapped with multiple layers of matt & cloth. I always started with matt first, then alternated layers of matt & cloth until I ended up with cloth as the topmost layer. Matt is good for random axis strength, cloth should be oriented in line with the repair, if ya gets my meaning. Others may differ in opinion, that's just the way I used to do it, and each repair stayed repaired, LOL. :cool:
 

Ghost Rider

Planing into eternity...
#19
So I’m guessing there is a block of wood under the fiberglass to secure the mast step bracket? Hard to tell how deep the cracks run
Yes, I would presume so, unless the mast step is somehow bolted directly to the glass. Do you have an inspection hatch situated where you can see, maybe using a small mirror? If the cracks are merely in the gelcoat, just clean 'em up and fill 'em, the underlying glass will probably be solid enough. Do what you can to determine how bad the damage is... if it's minor, just deal with it as suggested, if only for cosmetic reasons before you prime & paint. BTW, you can always install your own inspection hatches, that's a fairly simple task, just don't place them in areas where hull integrity is required for strength or safety. :confused:
 

Ghost Rider

Planing into eternity...
#20
Gotta get cleaned up and run into town... you're doing alright, just check those damaged areas. You always wanna repair all glass damage BEFORE priming & painting, that way the boat will look like a million bucks when you're done, LOL. ;)
 
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