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The vang: taking one purchase out. Then what?

thieuster

Active Member
First, let me skip the part if it’s good/no good to take one purchase out. Let’s assume that you’re going that route.

When you take one purchase out from the becket block down, you can tie the secondary line to the lower vang assembly with a bowline. But then, there's a chance that the edges of the assembly will rub against the secondary line and damaging it.
Second option I've spotted is the same line not tied around the upper part of the vang assembly, but 'luggage tagged' around the upper block of the assembly. Again, there's a chance of damaging the line.
Third option was something I spotted this afternoon on YT. On a video by Robert Scheidt, he showed that he'd taken one purchase from the primary line! It was tied to the lower assembly block, then upwards around the block under the boom and down again (few inches) for the becket block and the attachment of the secondary line.

Now, what it your experience/do's and don'ts/ideas about the way one should take out one purchase?

Menno
 
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LaLi

Well-Known Member
I assume that the title means going from 15:1 to 12:1. I've thought of doing the same just to have less line to pull at the leeward mark.

Robert Scheidt has had a 10:1 (2x5) ever since he finally changed to the "new" vang cleating fitting. I understand he just tried to emulate the former 8:1 (4x2) as he's really an "old school" guy when it comes to technology. Paul Goodison used a 9:1 (3x3) when he won gold in 2008. Etc.

You can get creative with the vang. 7 turns, two lines, no triple blocks, and you can have any purchase with those (in fact, the practical maximum is as high as 20:1). No arrangement will be free of chafe, even the originally intended ones don't line up perfectly. Eventually, the lines need to be replaced anyway. Different types & sizes of block and different ways of knotting/splicing may help. (Hint: a figure 8 often beats a bowline.)

I actually have had ever since 2001 a 5x3 instead of a 3x5, and it runs very smoothly. One might think it doesn't have enough range of adjustment, but I have had no problem with that, and neither has anyone else who has tried it. I also have the "new" Allen cleating fitting, which is probably more versatile than the Harken in this sense as all the sheaves are vertically oriented.

I'll try a 4x3 later in the season, and if it works better, I'll probably rig a 2x2x3 from scratch, to minimize friction.

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Pierson

Member
I actually have had ever since 2001 a 5x3 instead of a 3x5, and it runs very smoothly.
I'll try a 4x3 later in the season, and if it works better, I'll probably rig a 2x2x3 from scratch, to minimize friction.
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Do you have any pictures of these configurations? Sounds like something to try out.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
No pictures but now that you mention it, I might as well take some one of these days. After all the vang is in the bag which is in the car which is in the street a few steps away :D

For reasons that are outside the scope of the forum, I haven't sailed the Laser for a long time now. But one can always test some things at home... like different vang setups. Thanks for the tip :)

(Whatever happened to Menno by the way?)

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Pierson

Member
I’ve always used a 15:1. I know the 12:1 is popular but I’ve never tried it. I’ve used a 10:1 before on my practice boat a few times but always found it hard to pull on that extra but in heavy air.

What would the arrangement for the blocks look like in the methods you listed above?
I have a Allen vang also.

and who is Menno?
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Menno is the writer of post #1 :rolleyes: He had interesting insights into the class and the sport as whole, from a Dutch perspective. Had some good conversations with him. Just realized that he hasn't even visited the forum for more than a year now.

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Pierson

Member
Oh interesting. I almost moved to the Netherlands a few years ago. Would have been some great sailing opportunities over there!
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
After watching some international sailing academy videos and looking at the vang setting charts I took 2 hours re-setting my 15:1 vang to the 12:1 set up and marked the recommended setting positions. Haven't sailed with it yet though. Sitting in the yard and pulling the vang to the D3 setting was pretty tough, but I bet it'll pull on easier while sailing with some mainsheet tension on.
 
I have done the same and i like it. The biggest plus for me is that it is now much easier to let go of the vang when rounding the windward mark. I can use the handle now because there is less rope. In the 15:2 setup i needed to use the rope between the handle and the vang as even at 1.88m my arm was too short to let go of the vang using the handle.

I hardly notice that i need more power now to tighten the vang.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Pictures promised, pictures follow :D

This is my 5x3 vang. Spread out the lines a bit to hopefully make it easier to visualize how it’s run.

IMG_0006.JPG

It has looked pretty much like this since May 2002. I tried slightly different key blocks a long time ago, and the lines have been updated a few times. The primary is (I think) 3 mm DynaOne by Gleistein, and the cleating line is 4 mm Marlow Excel Racing.

The key block is a combination of Harkens 312 and 417. Together they function like a fiddle block with an internal swivel. When the sheaves are at about 45° to one another, the primary line runs very smoothly.

IMG_0008.JPG

(A 3 mm line fits just barely in the hole in the 417, so you need a pin or a needle to push it through.)

The whole thing works quite nicely; the range of adjustment is still a bit of a question mark, though. The pin-to-pin distance goes from about 62 cm to 53, which I’ve felt is totally adequate. Tightening it any more would just bend the boom (and make tacking harder!). The question is, should I get a new, stiffer boom (mine has the shorter sleeve)?

Another thing common to all 15:1 systems is that when switching from a downwind to upwind setting, you need to pull quite a bit of line - just a bit more than is comfortable. So, like many others, I’ve thought of reducing the purchase to 12:1. I could make a 4x3 by taking the end of the primary line off the key block…

IMG_E0011.JPG

…and attaching it to the now-lazy sheave on the cleating fitting:

IMG_E0012.JPG

The only problem with this is that the load per sheave would increase, possibly too much for the smaller ones. So if 12:1 feels good, then I’ll probably set up a 2x2x3. That would have only five turns, so that would reduce friction, too. Here’s what it might look like:

IMG_0013.JPG

The key block should be a Harken 300 (no becket), but the floating 20 and 30 mm Ronstans would probably be quite optimal like that.

Comments?

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