What's new

The Phantom sailboat is back!

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
Every once in a while someone with a Phantom stops by our forum. Everyone thought (I think) that they are no longer made. But they are! So if anyone stops by, we can direct them here for info and parts: http://www.j-pointmarine.com/index.htm

I think they should get a better sailmaker - those sails do not look so good. I also wonder why they changed the name.

If you visit the Point Marine site, does anyone recognize what a Pointer 12 originally was - I don't recognize that hull. I doubt they built a new mold - I suspect that like the Phantom, they found an old mold and turned whatever the boat was into a Pointer 12.

BB
 

Oceanfish

sailing addict
the only thing that comes to me as for the pointer 12 is that it resembles a zuma with a larger cockpit. but i agree pointer wouldnt make a new mold. theyre too cheap,
 

Wayne

Member Emeritus
Every once in a while someone with a Phantom stops by our forum. Everyone thought (I think) that they are no longer made. But they are! So if anyone stops by, we can direct them here for info and parts: http://www.j-pointmarine.com/index.htm

I think they should get a better sailmaker - those sails do not look so good. I also wonder why they changed the name.
When J-Point Marine appeared on the scene a couple of years back a lot of rumors were flying around about the return of the Phantom. Since then Phantom owners steered their way have reported back they are polite, but non-committal about supporting the Phantom. "Maybe down the road" has been the most often related reply to parts inquiries.

I surmise J-Point didn't buy Phantom as a brand, they bought the defunct company's shop equipment..., and maybe the molds to modify into their own, unrelated line of boats.



the only thing that comes to me as for the pointer 12 is that it resembles a zuma with a larger cockpit. but i agree pointer wouldnt make a new mold. theyre too cheap,
I always pictured the Zuma as a wide-body Laser


The Pointer 12 strikes me more as a generic dink/dinghy like so many found regionally around the country.


 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
Strange about not selling parts....I would assume that someday, some part on a Pointer 14 is going to break and they are going to have to sell their customers a replacement part. And since they are the same parts......

Unusual business model!
 

Wayne

Member Emeritus
Strange about not selling parts....I would assume that someday, some part on a Pointer 14 is going to break and they are going to have to sell their customers a replacement part. And since they are the same parts......Unusual business model!
Oh, I think they'll sell you Pointer parts, but those aren't the same as Phantom. For example, take a look at the rudder..., completely different...., no longer a proprietary design, now using off-the-shelf RWO head, bracket assembly, and tiller.
 

67stang

Member
Oh, I think they'll sell you Pointer parts, but those aren't the same as Phantom. For example, take a look at the rudder..., completely different...., no longer a proprietary design, now using off-the-shelf RWO head, bracket assembly, and tiller.

I noticed the new Pointer tiller/ rudder a while back, being also a Phantom owner, I like the old Phantom kick up rudder style better than what they offer now.

[/quote]
 

baseman

On the Water
Ok I'm new here, but I stumbled accross this thread looking for Phantom information. I bought a 1981 Phantom and I was curious. If any of you own a Phantom, was there some sort of spring mechanism to keep the rudder from floating up while under way? There is a hole in the rudder, but I'm not quite sure what it's for. Any suggestions would be great.
 

Webfoot

New Member
If the hole is midway or towards the lower ended of the rudder it may have been a metal weight to hold the rudder down.
 

67stang

Member
Ok I'm new here, but I stumbled accross this thread looking for Phantom information. I bought a 1981 Phantom and I was curious. If any of you own a Phantom, was there some sort of spring mechanism to keep the rudder from floating up while under way? There is a hole in the rudder, but I'm not quite sure what it's for. Any suggestions would be great.
.....no springs involved in the Phantom's rudder, just 2 pivoting bolts. It is a simple locking mechanisim, with the tiller pushed back, the rudder stays down, slighly lift and pull forward, the rudder kicks up and stays until you lift the tiller and move it back. I'll attach a pic to show you.....please excuse the corrosion on the lower rudder bracket, it still works perfectly.
 

Attachments

baseman

On the Water
67Stang - thanks for the info.
My rudder doesn't stay down. I have to keep pushing it down with the tiller. Maybe I should tighten the tiller pivot bolt
 

67stang

Member
67Stang - thanks for the info.
My rudder doesn't stay down. I have to keep pushing it down with the tiller. Maybe I should tighten the tiller pivot bolt

Baseman- You say that you can't see the pics? I'll attach some new ones from another tiller/rudder that I have. I don't think tightening the pivot bolt will solve the problem that you are having, it will just make kicking the rudder up stiffer. In the pic, you will see a "cam" tab on the tiller straps, that locks the rudder in down position. When lifting the tiller up and over, the "cam " stop, (forward) it pulls the rudder up and to another "cam" stop, holding it in up position. It takes the lifting of the tiller to go to and from postions. Is the "cam" worn out on your tiller straps?
If you still can't view the pics, I can e mail them to ya
 

Attachments

baseman

On the Water
67Stang. I had taken all the hardware off the rudder to refinish it. I'm not sure if the cam is worn out or not. I did tighten the bolt a bit. I'll know Saturday if it works.
BTW - If you ever feel like racing, there are races most weekends on Bow Lake. It's mostly Lightnings, but most of the races are open to other classes. I'm going up on Sat. Hopefully some of the Sunfish will show up.
I can see the pics after I hit post reply, but not in the main thread.
 

FlashGordon

New Member
Ok I'm new here, but I stumbled accross this thread looking for Phantom information. I bought a 1981 Phantom and I was curious. If any of you own a Phantom, was there some sort of spring mechanism to keep the rudder from floating up while under way? There is a hole in the rudder, but I'm not quite sure what it's for. Any suggestions would be great.
It's likely that the previous owner bought a Sunfish rudder...which is drilled for the spring mechanism. Caution though...the Sunfish Gudgeon (receiver on the hull for the rudder) has different dimensions than the Phantom, so the pintle pin assys are not interchangeable.
Does anyone have experience replacing the Phantom Gudgeon with a Sunfish Gudgeon?
 

FlashGordon

New Member
Baseman- You say that you can't see the pics? I'll attach some new ones from another tiller/rudder that I have. I don't think tightening the pivot bolt will solve the problem that you are having, it will just make kicking the rudder up stiffer. In the pic, you will see a "cam" tab on the tiller straps, that locks the rudder in down position. When lifting the tiller up and over, the "cam " stop, (forward) it pulls the rudder up and to another "cam" stop, holding it in up position. It takes the lifting of the tiller to go to and from postions. Is the "cam" worn out on your tiller straps?
If you still can't view the pics, I can e mail them to ya
Did you find a supplier of Phantom 14 rudders? The picture looks like a new rudder assembly. I'm curious because I have a Phantom 14 and have been unable to find replacement parts. I acquired the sailboat with the lakefront place, and the rudder was missing.
 

baseman

On the Water
Flash - you may want to contact J-point marine. They don't have parts listed online. Ig the pic of the new rudder in this thread is accurate, the rudder looks different but the bracket is the same.

I might have a sunfish rudder, but I have the Phantom bracket I tightendthe tiller bolt and things are working fine now.
 

67stang

Member
Flash - you may want to contact J-point marine. They don't have parts listed online. Ig the pic of the new rudder in this thread is accurate, the rudder looks different but the bracket is the same.

I might have a sunfish rudder, but I have the Phantom bracket I tightendthe tiller bolt and things are working fine now.

...So, they were miss matched (Phantom hardware and a Sunfish rudder blade)?
 

FlashGordon

New Member
...So, they were miss matched (Phantom hardware and a Sunfish rudder blade)?
The Phantom 14 came with the property here. The rudder assy was missing. I tried to find Phantom parts and was pointed to J-Point Marine. Their Pointer 14 appears to be made from the same mold as the Phantom 14. However the rudder assy is quite different.
I then incorrectly assumed that the Phantom and the Sunfish shared the same rudder hardware, and ordered Sunfish parts. They are not the same. The Sunfish rudder hardware does not fit the Phantom Gudgeon (bracket on the stern intended to accept the rudder). The outside vertical dimension of the Sunfish rudder hardware is about 3 13/16 inches, so with the washers top and bottom it appears that the Sunfish Gudgeon inside vertical dimension is about 4 inches. The Phantom 14 gudgeon has an inside dimension of about 3 5/16 inches. That means that it is a full 1/2 inch smaller even without the washers.
I have ordered a Sunfish gudgeon, and hope to be able to drill it to accept the Phantom 14 bolt pattern so that the hull will not have to be modified.
 

baseman

On the Water
The J-point marine rudder may look different, but the Gudgeon is still the same. The Jpoint rudder should work on older Phantoms.

Here are some pics of my rudder blade. I don't know if it's original (I'm at least the third owner of this boat)
 

Attachments

67stang

Member
The J-point marine rudder may look different, but the Gudgeon is still the same. The Jpoint rudder should work on older Phantoms.

Here are some pics of my rudder blade. I don't know if it's original (I'm at least the third owner of this boat)

I own both, an 1982 and 1990 Phantoms. I also have the sales lit and rigging sheets to the 82. The rudders are both composite materials as well as the daggers. The hardware is the same also. The tiller extentions are a bit different. My 82 extention is similar to yours. My trailer lic. plate is similar to yours too (live free or die)!
 

baseman

On the Water
Stang - I probably don't live very far from you. I would consider myself S. New Hamphire also.
 

FlashGordon

New Member
The J-point marine rudder may look different, but the Gudgeon is still the same. The Jpoint rudder should work on older Phantoms.

Here are some pics of my rudder blade. I don't know if it's original (I'm at least the third owner of this boat)
The rudder both you and 67Stang have would be fine. Unfortunately that is different from the rudder on the Pointer14 offered by J-Point Marine...see above. It appears to have a friction hold-down, with no connection to the tiller. Yours, and the Sunfish rudder, can be raised by pulling on the tiller. From my experience in the past, that feature is mighty handy when you are approaching the beach!
I got the Sunfish gudgeon today thanks to Heather at Laser Performance. At appears that two of the bolt holes will line up. I just need to drill two additional holes. I'll post the result here.
 

baseman

On the Water
I got to see a Pointer 14 up close and personal last weekend. They have made a few changes, but basically it looks just like a Phantom with Sunfish stripes.

I also brought a Scorpion home yesterday. The rudder and daggerboard are much smaller than the Phantom even though the boats are the same size. Makes me wonder where the rudder I have for the Phantom came from.

Stang- could you post or send me a picture of your Phantom rudder(s), and possibly the dimensions?
 

67stang

Member
Stang- could you post or send me a picture of your Phantom rudder(s), and possibly the dimensions?[/quote]

Ok, The 1990 measurements are;
The long length is 26 5/8"
The short length is around 25 1/2"
The width is 7 3/8 "
The tiller bar is 44 1/4 " long
The tiller extension is 24 1/2 " long
The thickness of the rudder is 13/16" thick

The 1982 measurements are the same except for:
The tiller bar is 44 1/2 "
The tiller extension is 25 1/2 "
The pics are of the 1990 first , and then the 1982
 

Attachments

baseman

On the Water
Thanks. Now I now my rudder is not original. It's about a foot longer than it needs to be. No wonder I had so much trouble with it. I don't know where it came from amd neither does the guy I bought the boat from. Maybe I'll just cut the blade to the original length. It won't look the same as the original, but it might be easier to manage.

On another note, one of the Scorpion spars is bent. Can they be staightened or is it history?
 

MarcM

New Member
Every once in a while someone with a Phantom stops by our forum. Everyone thought (I think) that they are no longer made. But they are! So if anyone stops by, we can direct them here for info and parts: http://www.j-pointmarine.com/index.htm

I think they should get a better sailmaker - those sails do not look so good. I also wonder why they changed the name.

If you visit the Point Marine site, does anyone recognize what a Pointer 12 originally was - I don't recognize that hull. I doubt they built a new mold - I suspect that like the Phantom, they found an old mold and turned whatever the boat was into a Pointer 12.

BB
That's good news!!
I just bought a used (luckily, in perfect condition) a 1978 Phantom sailboat. It sounds like getting parts is still iffy??
I copied the link for others' future reference, but after reading on, it sounds like http://www.j-pointmarine.com/index.htm is not really cooperating ??
Are many of their parts identical??
 

baseman

On the Water
MarcM - Depending on what parts you may need, you won't need to rely on J-Point Marine to get them. The rudder assemebly Jpoint uses is different from the original, but the gudgeon is the same. I asked them at one point if the cockpit bailer on the Pointer 14 would work on a Phantom. They said it wouldn't, but would not tell me why. As for sails and spars, I'm using a no logo Sunfish sail, and as far as I can tell, Sunfish spars will work also. A race cut Sunfish sail from Intensity Sails would be a good choice if you need a new sail.
 

Gail

24186
Every once in a while someone with a Phantom stops by our forum. Everyone thought (I think) that they are no longer made. But they are! So if anyone stops by, we can direct them here for info and parts: http://www.j-pointmarine.com/index.htm

I think they should get a better sailmaker - those sails do not look so good. I also wonder why they changed the name.

If you visit the Point Marine site, does anyone recognize what a Pointer 12 originally was - I don't recognize that hull. I doubt they built a new mold - I suspect that like the Phantom, they found an old mold and turned whatever the boat was into a Pointer 12.

BB
Pointer 12 reminds me of the old Holders, I think there was a 12? 14?
 

Merrimac

Member
Howmar 12 and holder twelve




Personally, the Howmar looks more like the Pointer, the Holder is more of a Zuma type boat

M
 

Robert Baker

New Member
I just bought a phantom rudder from e-bay with no tiller. Can anyone post the specs for the tiller so that I can have one made? What would be a good wood to use to make this tiller?

Bob
 

baseman

On the Water
Did the rudder come with the bracket? The Phantom tiller has a bracket that mates with the rudder bracket to hold the rudder down. The Phantom tiller is aluminum, 1 x 1 1/2, 44 1/5 inches long with a 26 inch extension. I have a tiller but not the extension (I used the extension on the tiller I made for my Viking). You could use wood, but you would need the bracket that attaches to the tiller.
 

Robert Baker

New Member
Yes, it does have a bracket. It looks as if the tiller slips between the bracket and there are two thru bolts that hold it in place. I'll know exactly in a few days when I get it. Thank you very much for the information. Would you be willing to sell your tiller? If so what would be your asking price?

bob
 
Top