Telltales of the 2002 Laser Worlds
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Elessar
Member
I believe the best placed ones are Brendan Casey's because you have the 3 main telltales at the bottom of the luff (near the tack), he also used another one along the luff at the middle and one near the top - still on the luff. I think these are the best places because they can tell you if you have too much or too little kicker, or if you have a too tight or too loose foot of the sail.
But hey its your decision =P
But hey its your decision =P
That drawing is in error!
Paul Goodison would never have had a telltale that high in 2002. It was at least 4 inches lower.
2004 was a different matter, though, and his telltale placement proved the old adage that...
(Geesh! I thought my fly fishing group liked to split hairs, but this is nutz!)
Paul Goodison would never have had a telltale that high in 2002. It was at least 4 inches lower.
2004 was a different matter, though, and his telltale placement proved the old adage that...
(Geesh! I thought my fly fishing group liked to split hairs, but this is nutz!)
And what about to place a leech tell tale to see if you have too much or too little kicker? And I dont understand how luff tell tales can help you to understand if you have a too tight or too loose leach. Can you explain?
Thanks!
Paxfish! Can you tell about Ben Ainslie and Robert Sheidt tell tales? Are they right?
How about having your sail look like a shag pile carpet with a few hundred tell tale on each side. would look very 70's.
The other option, I am developing a system which emits smoke at different points along the luff of the sail so you can see what the airflow is doing.
OK seriously I have three tell arrange in a triangle in the bottom quarter of the sail down by the tack. Then a tell tail off each of the batten pockets (the latter helps you see the flow off the back edge of the leech, very effective to see if it is stalling or not, tell tail should be flowing about 75% if the time) however a hooked leech which is too tight is fairly obvious to spot
The other option, I am developing a system which emits smoke at different points along the luff of the sail so you can see what the airflow is doing.
OK seriously I have three tell arrange in a triangle in the bottom quarter of the sail down by the tack. Then a tell tail off each of the batten pockets (the latter helps you see the flow off the back edge of the leech, very effective to see if it is stalling or not, tell tail should be flowing about 75% if the time) however a hooked leech which is too tight is fairly obvious to spot
Elessar
Member
The luff tells you because if you have a too loose kicker the top of the sail will be more open in comparison to the bottom of the sail. So you can set the tell tales correct for the bottom of the sail, but at the top of the sail they will not be correct (they will act like the sail is too far out - so the front tell tale would flutter), so you aren't getting as much drive as possible from the top quarter of the sail.
If your kicker is too tight the opposite will happen. The bottom of the sail will be more open in comparison to the top. You could set the tell tales correct at the bottom of the sail, but at the top of the sail they will not be correct (they will act like the sail is too tight - so the back tell tale will flutter), so you are losing speed because the wind isn't travelling correctly over the sail, at the top quarter of the sail.
I have never used leech tell tales and don't know how they would work.
Paul Goodison wrote 'The best position for tell tales is just above the window and one at the half way point between the luff and the top batten'. His boat in the pictures also has another one further forward and up from the lower one
There is only one boat with leech tell tales in the whole book, they don't seem to be popular with the top sailors. Does the leech not matter or have these guys practised so much they instinctively know the sail has stalled?
In think you're right about practice! They know when the sail is stalled instinctively! In my opinion only leech tell tale can tell you when youre sail is stalled. And luff tell tales especially bottom are used for steering.
Thanks for Goodison tell tales placements!
Paraic
Member
Use what works best for you not what works best for someone else, ESP not world and olympic champions! Given the level those guys sail at I doubt they even need to look at the sail to know what its doing the majority of the time
You need to position the tell tails in the positions of the sail YOU need to know how the air is traveling over.
1) The tiller length, the toestrap lengts are individual. The rules of sail trim in different wind conditions are the same! The tell tales which work for one sailor will work for another if he know how to use them! The different is only in comfort! You need to try different methods to understand what is comfortable for you! I want to try ben, paul, sheidt, my... methods!!! And understand what method is more comfortable to me!!!
2) When I ask length this mean that i interesting in length and not in width! That's why next time please give concrete answer. If you dont know concrete answer then dont give an answer!
Muzza
Member
In other classes (without strict one-design sails) and in keel boats it has always been my practice to use a lot of telltails on a new sail for the first few outings (preferably not when racing) in order to learn about that sail in various wind strengths and on various points of sail. I take notes and experiment with different trimming. This is especially useful when doing some straight-line sailing against a training partner. Once I felt I knew the sail, I would remove most of the telltails – leaving those that I felt were the best compromise indicators of windflow over a wide set of conditions and trim.
In a laser, where our sails (when new) are in theory as alike as the manufacturer can make them, and where our spars are likewise, this is pretty much unnecessary. But for somebody new to the class, or returning to the class after a few years away (as I did) it is not a bad idea to sail with extra telltails while learning or re-learning the characteristics of the rig and sail in various conditions. Racing isn’t the time to do this – you will generally focus on only one or two telltails when racing. But it is useful when training and focusing on trim and straight line speed. With a little sticky-back Dacron tape and some wool it is easy and cheap to add and remove them.
A big learning curve for me when I came back to the class was boom vang adjustment (my previous laser sailing predated the new controls). It is worth spending a lot of training time on the water, both upwind and down (in flat water), just playing with vang settings in various wind strengths and watching the behavior of the telltails.
In a laser, where our sails (when new) are in theory as alike as the manufacturer can make them, and where our spars are likewise, this is pretty much unnecessary. But for somebody new to the class, or returning to the class after a few years away (as I did) it is not a bad idea to sail with extra telltails while learning or re-learning the characteristics of the rig and sail in various conditions. Racing isn’t the time to do this – you will generally focus on only one or two telltails when racing. But it is useful when training and focusing on trim and straight line speed. With a little sticky-back Dacron tape and some wool it is easy and cheap to add and remove them.
A big learning curve for me when I came back to the class was boom vang adjustment (my previous laser sailing predated the new controls). It is worth spending a lot of training time on the water, both upwind and down (in flat water), just playing with vang settings in various wind strengths and watching the behavior of the telltails.
I understand why Ainslie has 2 pairs of tell tales. It explains in WB-Sails Ltd resourse! (http://www.wb-sails.fi/news/95_11_Tellingtales/Tellingtales.html)
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"It's a good idea to have two sets of steering telltales. One set should be installed a bit higher and closer to the luff than the other. The telltales further away from the luff are more forgiving and you should steer according to them in rough seas and in heavy winds. The telltales closer to the luff are more sensitive and you should use them in smooth seas and lighter conditions."
So I can make a [/SIZE][/FONT]conclusion that such positions of tell tales will work for everyone! Will work VERY WELL for every Laser without exception!!!
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"It's a good idea to have two sets of steering telltales. One set should be installed a bit higher and closer to the luff than the other. The telltales further away from the luff are more forgiving and you should steer according to them in rough seas and in heavy winds. The telltales closer to the luff are more sensitive and you should use them in smooth seas and lighter conditions."
So I can make a [/SIZE][/FONT]conclusion that such positions of tell tales will work for everyone! Will work VERY WELL for every Laser without exception!!!
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gouvernail
Super Opinionated and Always Correct
Good luck finding telltales but here are a bunch of Lasers from the 2000 worlds
Thanks Muzza for a very useful reply.
Can't quite say the same thing about gouvernail's post, but I like the composite anyway.
Can't quite say the same thing about gouvernail's post, but I like the composite anyway.