Class Politics Team Intensity Wins Endurance Race!

[lasersailorvbc]

Team Internsity places first of the Laser's and 3rd overall at the Leukemia Endurance Race this past weekend. I think around 18 different boats were out there at a time. The Regatta was never over 7 mph, the sail got some light air into it and managed to do Great. The event raised over $6000 to the Leukemia Society.

 

[Merrily]

I'm afraid I was quite slow on the uptake on this one. When Team Intensity arrived with matching shirts at our Endurance race, I did not make the connection that they were using the Intensity Sail until late in the race. Then to compound the problem, I didn't tell the race organizer, due to my exhaustion. I now regret not checking everyone's equipment before the race, because the Portsmouth numbers are based on using a class legal sail. They were racing against the Lasers, but without all legal parts, they were not Lasers.

 

[Laser76489]

If the scoring was based on a handicap # then it would not matter that the sail was made by a different maker. If the sail was bigger or smaller in area then it would make a difference only because the # would change.

If it is a true 1 design Laser only event then technically yes they are not Lasers. But I think in this case it would be a bit petty to protest.

 

[Merrily]

If the scoring was based on a handicap # then it would not matter that the sail was made by a different maker. If the sail was bigger or smaller in area then it would make a difference only because the # would change.

If it is a true 1 design Laser only event then technically yes they are not Lasers. But I think in this case it would be a bit petty to protest.

Their award stands.

However, I disagree completely that sail size is the only thing that matters. Class legal sails behave in a certain fashion that an imitation cannot duplicate. The Intensity sail is stiffer with more resin, which is why it lasts longer, and that and other factors such as cloth weight and type will give it a different Portsmouth number. Therefore, the sail shouldn't have been used. The sailing instructions said specifically that only boats with Portsmouth numbers were eligible. There is not (yet) a Portsmouth number for a Laser with an Intensity Sail.

I also beg to differ that it has to state in the NOR that it is a true one design event to use class legal parts. I believe most sailors want the boats they race against to have legal parts. The exceptions are in practice and in agreed upon by all beer can races. The Intensity Sail is marketed as a practice sail for those purposes. If you allow practice sails at regattas, where does it stop? Let's say hypothetically that my event didn't state we were following the rules of the ILCA, so it's OK that you reshaped your hull and blades? I don't think so! (Just to be clear, in no way am I saying that Team Intensity did anything like that. They used a practice sail, period.)

 

[Laser76489]

My experiance (limited as it is) with handicap rating is that the # is based on sail area (hulls being equal). When I raced 505s agaist the leadmines in my area I had the same # no matter what sail I used. When I raced Leadmines as well a 160 genoa was a 160 genoa. No matter the material or the cut, crusing or racing sail...no difference in the #.

It is also my feeling that I would rather race against true legal one design boats...thats why we race lasers. So while I agree with you in a handicap event the # perhaps should but propably won't change.

But the most important thing is

Did you have Fun??? Sounds like a blast

 

[Merrily]

My experiance (limited as it is) with handicap rating is that the # is based on sail area (hulls being equal). When I raced 505s agaist the leadmines in my area I had the same # no matter what sail I used. When I raced Leadmines as well a 160 genoa was a 160 genoa. No matter the material or the cut, crusing or racing sail...no difference in the #.

It is also my feeling that I would rather race against true legal one design boats...thats why we race lasers. So while I agree with you in a handicap event the # perhaps should but propably won't change.

But the most important thing is

Did you have Fun??? Sounds like a blast

It's possible the number wouldn't change. The point is, there is no number established.

We did have fun, so much so that we are doing the race again next year! That was not a done deal from the start. See the last two posts of this thread to read my account of the event. http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=3493

 

[SFBayLaser]

If the scoring was based on a handicap # then it would not matter that the sail was made by a different maker. If the sail was bigger or smaller in area then it would make a difference only because the # would change.

Perhaps... but a faster sail does not necessarily have to be different in size. Perhaps a "faster" sail could be arrived at by simply changing the cloth characteristics or maybe by changing the cut slightly.

If you go to the Portsmouth page at the US Sailing website it describes how the numbers are determined. From that I see that its not a completely deterministic formula but, rather, does appear to have a significant "performance" aspect to it. In addition, they list four important assumptions with the key one (for this discussion) being:

that all one-design boats conform to class specifications and rules, and use sails specified by the class rules.

As we all know, only builder supplied sails satisfy this assumption.

If it is a true 1 design Laser only event then technically yes they are not Lasers. But I think in this case it would be a bit petty to protest.

At what point is it no longer petty to protest?

What are the other competitors, sailing Class legal boats, supposed to think? Were they beaten by superior sailing or by superior boat speed?

It really does matter, especially when the guys who you beat stop showing up and you have no one to sail against anymore.

 

[Laser76489]

well in a perfect world we would all have the same sail...this in my opinion, as I said is the reason why we all sail Lasers.... I am not arguing that.

If its a handicap race then you complete against a lot of other boats based on a formula...that formula can't acount for every variable...Just my opinion but if its not a laser regatta I see nothing wrong with using a practice sail. It perhaps would have been a good idea for them to have checked to make sure it was ok ahead of time. (perhaps they did? I don't know)

I have a practice sail and mine is slower than my 4 year old laser sail ( or I don't know how to use it as well). The difference if any is small at best.

A lot of people use them for club racing with no problem but most of the winners are using Laser legal sails.

I admit I just sail for the fun of it...I won't win even with a motor so if I can have fun and spend $200 instead of $480 I will. Yes I do use a class legal sail if I am sailing in a Laser regatta, but not if I am going out to play.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Merrily]

...Just my opinion but if its not a laser regatta I see nothing wrong with using a practice sail. It perhaps would have been a good idea for them to have checked to make sure it was ok ahead of time. (perhaps they did? I don't know)

They did not check in advance to see if it was OK. The Notice of Race stated specifically that all boats entered had to have a Portsmouth rating. There is no Portsmouth rating for a Laser with an Intensity Sail.

 

[Laser76489]

They did not check in advance to see if it was OK. The Notice of Race stated specifically that all boats entered had to have a Portsmouth rating. There is no Portsmouth rating for a Laser with an Intensity Sail.

Is there a # for a Laser with a class legal sail?

I think the Number with Intensity sail would be the same.

My point is do you want fewer boats in your event or can you be flexible?

Agian just my opinion but anything that will get people out on the water having fun and racing is the right thing.

Again just my 2 cents. Now I have spent all my money and I won't post about this anymore.

Promise

 

[Merrily]

Is there a # for a Laser with a class legal sail?

I think the Number with Intensity sail would be the same.

My point is do you want fewer boats in your event or can you be flexible?

Agian just my opinion but anything that will get people out on the water having fun and racing is the right thing.

Again just my 2 cents. Now I have spent all my money and I won't post about this anymore.

Promise

Do you want fewer boats at your regattas, or can you be flexible? We want class legal boats at our regattas, and next year, there'll be no room for confusion. The NOR of Race will state that boats must conform to their class rules.

I believe that conforming to rules in a fair regatta is what will attract more boats in the future. In addition, Team Intensity is not lacking in class legal sails, and easily could have placed one on their boat. A poverty of sails was not the reason for the use of the Intensity sail.