Take 2 Sunfish—Make Catamaran?

Believe it or not it has been tried. About 4 feet between the Fish with a PVC piping arrangement to hold the two togther and a conduit tubing arrangement like Hobie uses to control the Rudders. The Lateen rigs would smack into one another and tacking was just about impposible due to the greatly increased beam.
They went as far as replacing the rigs with sailboard rigs mounted ouboard on the Fish to give clearance and replaced the ball mount bases with stiff ones so the rigs could be controlled without standing on the decks. A lot more speed but again tacking/gybing was about a 1/2 mile circle...LOL
We did some figuring and the wetted surface of the fish was larger than that of a 14 foot Hobie. A 25 knot day broke up the experiment and the folks figured it wasn't worth any more tinkering to get it to work.
 
I dunno:

Both masts could have been yoked together using 2 white PCV "T"s (to look like a long PVC "H"),

At the union of the spars, they could have been joined loosely together to reduce the amount of time that the sails might hit one another (using thin, bendy, grey PVC)... yet allow some individual compliance.

Tilting the hulls slightly inwards would reduce the wetted area. (Heat and bend the white PVC).

Then find a really big lake! LOL
 
I'm leaving my fiddly catamaran for the simpler, funner, Sunfish—but there's this thing nagging at me.

The very thought kinda defeats the purpose of a very simple hull and rig—and I've seen nothing on the Internet about it***.

But the idea still intrigues me. Two stayless rigs. Hmmm. Hmmm. Anyone tried it?

***OK, well, a Trimaran, maybe. :eek: http://www.boatdesign.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-2061.html

I am building a serious Sunfishamaran now. I have constructed composite crossbeams. I am using Prindle 18 rudders and a Trak 18 mainsail and jib on a 26' aluminum mast. I will try to upload some pics. I am rigging the mast today.
=-) PAD =-)
 

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Sometimes when you tell someone it can NOT be done, it makes them that much more determined.

I love the idea, and wish luck to NH1-PAD and hope that he keeps the pics, and hopefully video of sea trials, coming.
 
I am not a marine engineer, but why are the hulls so close together? Also, although I have only thought about this for about 5 seconds, why wouldn't the hulls be canted in the opposite direction to give some chance, however slight, of reducing wetted surface in a higher breeze. As they are, they will have more wetted surface as this "vessel" heels. BTW, I thought a Trac 18 had a small main. Will it have enough horsepower to move this weight and wetted surface???
 
I think I might actually pay money to see a video of this going downwind in a decent breeze, maybe in moderate chop. You definitely have to post pictures.

I'll bet that with a decent outboard bolted to the rear crossbar this fish-cat could be interesting.

i
 
I think I might actually pay money to see a video of this going downwind in a decent breeze, maybe in moderate chop
i

I will pay to see that too. I think the only practical (if there is one ) point of sail in a breeze will be a reach. The effective beam seems too narrow to handle much sail area going upwind. Looking forward to seeing more progress.
 
Has anyone done a Sunfish with an outrigger? A much smaller pontoon than a whole other Sunfish, and maybe a trampoline might be more suitable.
 
The ultimate would be a trimaran. Two Sunfishes fastened bow to stern as the main hull, with a Sunfish on either side on long arms as the amas. The put a massive rig, perhaps from a J-105 on the middle hull. Or just buy a Hobie 18 and probably go faster with a lot less effort. BB
 
Hydrofoils would be best, which are moved into place with a lever in the cockpit area. (Lever engaged hydrofoils, hidden within the hull or mounted on deck, lever tensions the hydro-halyards and locks in place to hold the hydrofoils in the water)
 
Hydrofoils would be best, which are moved into place with a lever in the cockpit area. (Lever engaged hydrofoils, hidden within the hull or mounted on deck, lever tensions the hydro-halyards and locks in place to hold the hydrofoils in the water)
LOL! Excellent!
 
Wow! What a great exchange of ideas. I only want to make it go fast. I am an iceboater and the key is reducing friction and efficient use of apperent wind. I want it to get on a plane as quickly as it can. I hope to use the close hulls to act like a skimboard and the 8' beam is perfect to trailer without any conversions. Two people on the windward quarter should keep it sailing reasonably flat while on a plane. The Prindle 18 rudders are actuated thru a reversal pulley system which slows down the response speed from tiller to rudder. If you've sailed fast dinghys, when planing, speed is great enough to need to slow the response of the tiller. I totally expect a dog of a cat until I get enough wind to plane. Kind of like a shortboard windsurfer. Excellent for ripping reaches and power jibes. Oh, did I mention I windsurf as well? Almost ready for the "shake-up cruise".
 

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Oh, I thought about capsize. When it's a monohull they say it "turned turtle". With the Sunfishamaran it will have to be "turned turtles". lol I think with a masthead float, the hulls should swing downwind and like a Hobie, act like a sail, helping to bring it back up. And besides, it's got two dagger boards. One person on each!
=-) PAD =-)
 

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Hydrofoils would be best, which are moved into place with a lever in the cockpit area. (Lever engaged hydrofoils, hidden within the hull or mounted on deck, lever tensions the hydro-halyards and locks in place to hold the hydrofoils in the water)

I have though about a hydrofoil boat like the Hobie Tri-Foiler.I could make fixed foils on the bottoms of the daggerboards and push down and lock in place. Then fabricate a single foil rdder that adjusts at the tiller grip like a Moth. If planing doesn't go, I already have a book on how to design and build the foils.
=-) PAD =-)
 
I have though about a hydrofoil boat like the Hobie Tri-Foiler.I could make fixed foils on the bottoms of the daggerboards and push down and lock in place. Then fabricate a single foil rdder that adjusts at the tiller grip like a Moth. If planing doesn't go, I already have a book on how to design and build the foils.
=-) PAD =-)

That's cool. I don't know how to figure out the fluid dynamics involved - the surfaces - the area - depth - geometry - and of course how to manufacture such things... but they are the fastest way to sail. (A stealth, hidden, system would be a great practical joke during a race. Although I wouldn't do it. ) It's interesting to think about. My wife might get on the Sunfish if I had an outrigger with a trampoline to sunbath on... not that I would be allowed to spend any money on such a thing!

Good luck PAD, I look forward to more pictures and videos!!!
 
Oh come on Pat!? Wouldn't you take one DQ just to see their faces... Just once????
 

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I didn't realize you were located in New Hampshire, nor that Massabesic Lake had a speed :oops: limit.

Very nice job! Are you considering a "boom camera"?

I have a "Matrix-18" catamaran with a beam that is 10-feet wide overall. I towed it "flat" all over Florida, before realizing that 8-feet was the limit on towing loads! :confused:

The Prindle rudders had been stolen at the time I'd bought it, and was only able to locate one Prindle rudder when I put it in the water. That was thirty years ago, so just one Prindle rudder has been "enough rudder"—even while flying a hull.

On your "narrow" (to me) Sunfishamaran, do you really need all that rudder surface?

The "Matrix-18" catamaran came with a huge genoa jib, which makes for a scary-fast ride—much faster than my Hobie-18 and Tornado-20! What would happen if you went for a monster jib?

Those 10-MPH winds suggest you haven't been able to "fly a hull" yet. (That's a question ;)).
 
Holy Guacamole, I'm heading up to New Hampshire to take a look at this beast!!! Now all I have to do if figure out where Massabesic lake is...
 
The design goal is to sail it as flat as possible and keep planing like a wide board windsurfer. I want to have as presise and controlable a helm as possible. I did accidentlly "fly a hull" while attempting to put some shape in the sail by sitting on the leeward rail. A slight gust(??) quickly hiked the boat alarmingly. Not only is there a lot of sail, but also a lot of weight aloft. Lesson learned: Be Careful! I am working on a righting system. Maybe one person on each daggerboard?
 

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When sudden gusts hit my catamaran, I immediately pointed upwind. Now the answer is to slacken your sheets and point downwind. :confused: We have a lot of gusty winds on NH's Lake Winnipesaukee...I'm sticking with what I know. ;)

Until you get a righting system perfected, try raising the leeward daggerboard—a lot. A gust will put the major load on the leeward hull which will allow some slip. The momentum of the weight aloft will be lessened, which will likewise relieve the pressure to overturn.

Stiletto catamarans put one daggerboard between the two hulls—perhaps for that very reason. (They're big, and I wouldn't want to have to right one!) :eek:
 
Wish I had known you we're taking that out, I would have come over to watch (about a 20 min. drive from my house).
Bet the Manchester Water Works folks are scratching their heads on this one. Sunfish aren't legal on Massabesic, but it's not really a Sunfish, or is it?
 
Congrats on putting this together professionally and with great forethought. I am really impressed you were able to pull this off, so a sincere and hearty congrats!!

You may need either one crew or a trapeze, or a few simple mods. A Trac 14 had a beam of 7 1/2 feet. Although Sunfish each have a beam of 4 feet 1 inch, the effective beam of your boat is less as the hulls are canted - plus the water line is curved and unlike the Trac your 8 feet 2 inches of beam is only at the widest point, where the Trac was 7.5 feet wide for its entire length. Crew will add a lot of weight though - the Sunfishamaran is already about 100 lbs heavier than the Trac, which had a hull weight of 195. I think fiddling with the boards (do they really need to be full Sunfish length - perhaps shorter but foil shaped would help?) and perhaps making this just a beam/broad reaching machine instead of looking to sail upwind would let you see the max performance and the planing on one hull. I would love to see this on a broad reach in 20 knots!
 
Wish I had known you we're taking that out, I would have come over to watch (about a 20 min. drive from my house).
Bet the Manchester Water Works folks are scratching their heads on this one. Sunfish aren't legal on Massabesic, but it's not really a Sunfish, or is it?

Officially the story is that it is a Sunfishamaran and I'm stickin' to it. =-)
alcort-padco-sunfish2.jpg
 
I didn't realize you were located in New Hampshire, nor that Massabesic Lake had a speed :oops: limit.

I saw that 35MPH sign and thought that was a little fast for a boat ramp!
People in NH must be in a seriously big hurry to get their boats in!

That Sunfishamaran is impressive. I didn't think it would turn, but apparently I was wrong and it is a high performance double dinghy. Although I can't stop thinking that it looks sort of like the result of a high speed, completely inelastic, Sunfish racing accident. (Except we don't live in a cartoon. But it would still be fun to tell children that's how it was made. ...children and everyone else.)

Nice work Pad. Time to look for your youtube channel & video of the Sunfishamaran.
 
Wish I had known you we're taking that out, I would have come over to watch (about a 20 min. drive from my house).
Bet the Manchester Water Works folks are scratching their heads on this one. Sunfish aren't legal on Massabesic, but it's not really a Sunfish, or is it?
It'd be legal on Lake Winnipesaukee. ;)

:) Hey, NH1-PAD...!

The tenants at my Lake Winnipesaukee (NH) cottage are leaving tomorrow—there's no tenants arriving until Labor Day weekend. It'll be empty.

I'd like to see this boat in action—so why not launch the Sunfishamaran just once up here, and enjoy it for the Saturday and Sunday of next weekend at no cost? Extend your lakefront stay—or the stay of any Sunfishamaran admirers bringing their own Sunfish—at only $100 a day. (Up here, that's a bargain in lakefront rents!)
 
It'd be legal on Lake Winnipesaukee. ;)

:) Hey, NH1-PAD...!

The tenants at my Lake Winnipesaukee (NH) cottage are leaving tomorrow—there's no tenants arriving until Labor Day weekend. It'll be empty.

I'd like to see this boat in action—so why not launch the Sunfishamaran just once up here, and enjoy it for the Saturday and Sunday of next weekend at no cost? Extend your lakefront stay—or the stay of any Sunfishamaran admirers bringing their own Sunfish—at only $100 a day. (Up here, that's a bargain in lakefront rents!)

Sorry. Busy both days. =-(
PAD
 
Wow, with an offer like that of free housing on the Lake, I should either whip together my own Sunfishamaran or offer to charter NH1-PAD's!!
 
Sorry. Busy both days. =-(
PAD
:confused: But there is 12-feet between 50-foot docks—perfect dockage for a Sunfishamaran! :(

Well, the $ offer is still open to enthusiasts until September 1st, when a new tenant arrives. There are four twin beds, a bunk bed, and a fold-0ut queen (one bathroom!)—but you must bring a Sunfish!

(Not too prepared for racing, however). ;)

A serious-sailor-buddy—just retired and just three hours away—is waiting to race my spare Sunfish. A gal in town wants a Sunfish racing get-together for her incredibly immaculate Sunfish.

Who may I pencil in? :)
 
Sounds like a good deal to me, however, I'll be at Bow Lake the next two Sundays, and I would not be able to bring a Sunfish (I don't have one:)).
I could come up for a day during the week (it's about an hour or so from my house) and bring my Phantom.
 
A Phantom, huh? :confused: Doesn't a Phantom have a better Portsmouth rating? :eek:

...Just kidding...;)

My September 1st tenant has a Phantom—at least two Snarks, and a Sunfish or two—but I don't want to "step" on his family's Labor Day vacation.

I'll run a mid-week event through "channels" and see what can be put together. :)
 

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