Sunfish Identification

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#22
Beautiful boat! The serial number dates it to 1962. Leave the rudder as is, it will work fine and go for a sail! I'd go with the 2 loop or a piece of line. One more thing would be to put some vaseline on the threads of the bailer cap.

The spars look newer, the old style mast had a block at the top, so maybe a newer sail came along as a result. We sail with plenty of vintage sails and have a great time, no need to get a new one unless the old one is dry rotted, and the old one looks like a good color match. We like the swivel cam cleat.
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#23
What we found with the 3 loop bridle was that with the sheet captured in the middle, the sheet seemed to lift the the upwind edge of the stern out of the water, and the rudder along with it. Just a bit, but enough where the rudder effectiveness is diminished. With the 2 loop bridle the sheet clip or bowline is free to travel further over and find a natural balance point. Skipper made me throw all of the 3 loop bridles away. Our crazy friend Dozer likes the line bridle we rigged on the restoration boat VIPER. Swivel cam cleat. Line lacing for the sail. That's how we roll :)

IMG_5073.jpg

If you go the line route for the bridle, get a piece a little long and sneak up on the length you like. 30 inches sounds right but there is not a lot of room left to tie the knots. We use figure 8 knots.

When we go get line at West Marine, we buy 50 feet of 3/16" New England Rope Sta Set, 25 feet for the halyard, 3 feet for the bridle, 12-14 for the bow line and the rest becomes spare bits for a couple of sail ties. For the sheet we buy 25 feet of 5/16". For the sail lacing we buy 50 feet of 1/8" precut New England Rope nylon line, that makes up 2 outhauls and the continuous lacing line for the gaff and the boom. Some left over for a daggerboard retainer. If you decide you want a piece of bungee for daggerboard tension/retainer, 5 feet is enough to reach the bow handle, with the daggerboard end secured with a Figure 8 knot and the bow end having a bronze sheet clip on a bowline (see VIPER photo above). Skipper made me throw away all the bungees too, we go Old School and she likes to be able to get the daggerboard out easily during beaching, so it doesn't catch on the boom. Underway the hydrodynamic pressure keeps it in position.

daggerboard retainer line.JPG

Swivel cam cleat installation instructions

swivel cam cleat.jpg

For the mainsheet on our 1953 boat ZIP we did add a swivel block, attached to an eyestrap. It fits where a sheet hook would be attached, but ZIP didn't even have a sheet hook! Here's a photo of the swivel block, she is upgraded to a color matching Nautos ratchet block now.

IMG_1691.jpg

You can see that we really need all of the cleats, swivels, bungees, ratchets, cams, blocks, svetzer valves, ball bearings....your boat will sail great with just a lil ole hook.

IMG_5285.jpg
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#24
What we found with the 3 loop bridle was that with the sheet captured in the middle, the sheet seemed to lift the the upwind edge of the stern out of the water, and the rudder along with it. Just a bit, but enough where the rudder effectiveness is diminished.
The key word here is "seemed"... as the physics really doesn't work that way :rolleyes:

The only difference with the two types of bridles is the location of the lead point. With the sheet attached to the centre of the "three-loop" bridle it pulls more sideways than down, so the sail twists more and you have to compensate by sheeting the boom closer to the centreline than with the two-loop "bridle" (which is technically a traveller). That in itself doesn't make the boat heel more (which I guess is what you're trying to say); you're aiming for the same sideways force with either setup.

Single-sail rigs in relatively slow boats (such as the Sunfish and the Laser) work generally best with very little twist and the boom well off the centreline, so you should get slightly more forward force with a traveller than with a (three-loop) bridle. Whether that has any relevance in purely recreational sailing is more of a philosophical question.

(Note: all of the above applies only to upwind sailing.)

_
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#25
Nope. Saying having the sheet fixed at the center point of the bridle pulls the stern out of the water, and it imparts a heeling moment because the vector is captured more by the upside eyestrap. With the 2 loop the sheet is free to seek a better balance.

The bridle is a tiller bridle, it keeps the tiller from escaping. LP calls it a bridle and I'm happy with that.

Just be happy that this is not our rig. Name the boat.

W mainsheet Lugger.jpg
 
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LaLi

Well-Known Member
#27
Saying having the sheet fixed at the center point of the bridle pulls the stern out of the water, and it imparts a heeling moment because the vector is captured more by the upside eyestrap. With the 2 loop the sheet is free to seek a better balance.
:eek: Oh, my... It's just about the worst day of the year to engage in an argument about sailboat (pseudo)physics, so I'll probably/possibly come back to this sometime later. Or not.
But to repeat, mainsail lead position changes just the angle of attack/twist ratio, nothing else. No extra imaginary heeling forces are involved.

The bridle is a tiller bridle, it keeps the tiller from escaping. LP calls it a bridle and I'm happy with that.
Sailing terminology is another deep swamp. Every subculture develops its own vocabulary, synonyms are countless, and we're not even talking about actual different languages yet. The "bridle"/"traveller" distinction makes more sense to a non-Sunfishian speaker :D

Name the boat.
Drascombe - Wikipedia

(And Merry Christmas to everybody everywhere anyway ;) )

_
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#33
Names? Well, we certainly do!

HEUER GARAGE (15)
ONKAHYE 1980 Drascombe Lugger 1982
WAVE 1965 Alcort Sunfish 1994
PHOENIX 1982 AMF Sunfish 1994
MADISON 1982 AMF Sunfish 2000
CYANE 1971 O'Day Daysailer 2000
SCOUT Grumman 17 2011
LEWIS 2011 Pelican 10 2011
PINKY 2012 KM SUP 2012
CLARK 2013 Pelican 10 2013
ZIP 1953 Alcort Sunfish 2013
WILLOW 1959 Sorg 15 2014
WINNIE 1955 Alcort Sailfish 2016
ST JACQUES 2017 Penobscot 14 2017

SMEDLEY 1969 Alcort Catfish 2017
SUGAR 2 1978 AMF Sunfish

LEWIS BOAT WORKS (2)
CHIP 1963 wooden Alcort Sunfish 2013
ZSA ZSA 1960 Alcort Super Sailfish 2013

NEW BUILD (2)
BLUFF RATTY Square rigged 6-8' scow
ROSE Pascagoula Diamond Bottom Catboat

SHOP STOOLS
WALDO
CARMEN
ALPHA

SBR (37)
GOSHAWK 1984 Catalina 22
TILLY 1965 Sunfish
SASSY 1973 Sunfish
EDUARDO 1983 Sunfish
PFFFT 1982 Sunfish
RIPPLY Green Pelican Canoe 2011
TOMB RAIDER Red White Kayak
BUTTERCUP 1971 Sunfish
"RAY" OF HOPE 1971 Sunfish
FREEBIRD 1973 AMF Windflite
ROSE "BUD" 1968 Sunfish
ELLE 1987 Sunfish
BELLE 1974 Sunfish
MERCI 1968 Sunfish
NEPTUNE 1973 Sunfish
SWEETNESS 1963 Super Sailfish MKII
SWEET EMOTION Barnett Butterfly
SWEET EMO 2 Barnett Butterfly 2
HOOPS 1988 Sunfish to
YOYO 1985 Sunfish
SMOKEY Minifish
BANDIT Minifish
LADY 1980 Sunfish
ROAMER 1974 Drascombe Lugger
CATHERINE 1987 Sunfish
SILVERADO 1978 Sunfish
SCOUT 1984 Sunfish
BOO 1988 Sunfish
CRYSTAL 2003 Sunfish
BOOMERANG 2015 Sunfish
CIEL 2003 Sunfish
ELLE 1987 Sunfish
BARBASHELA 1880 Leathers 21 Mississippi River Skiff
HANNA 2006 Penobscot 17
VIPER 1982 AMF Sunfish
SUGAR 1980 AMF Sunfish
VICTORY 1979 Drascombe Dabber
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#35
You can sail the boat without any hooks, cams, swivels, cleats, fairleads etc and have a blast. I'm guseeing he fairlead hook showed up with the mid to late 60s fiberglass boats.

In fact new Skippers should avoid things that lines can get fouled in. As experience increases, feel free to increase gadgetry.

Check out Skipper and the sheet. She had a GREAT time, woo hoo. Cover shot!

IMG_0020.jpg
 
#36
I had been thinking about bypassing my block and sailing unencumbered like this and kind of miss the hook on the old Sunfish. Also, I have not named my boat yet. Thinking about getting a red and white striped sail for my boat out here and taking the Colada sail to Wisconsin for the old boat. Then, my boat being from China could be named the "Commie Cruiser". Well, maybe not....My wife is named Wendy so I might name it after her. Maybe the "Windy-O" ?
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#37
Children of Aeolus, the Keeper of the Winds, and Eos, the Titan goddess of the dawn. The four gods were Boreas (North Wind), Notus (South Wind),Zephyrus (West Wind) and Eurus (East Wind).

Can't go wrong naming a boat after the Commanding General, well, actually you can, but that is a story to not be repeated :/
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
#38
Then, my boat being from China could be Commie Cruiser
I like it!

BTW Sunfish are easier to control, it’s easier on your hand, and you get better sail shape by using a ratchet block. Center cleats of any type can easily lead to an unexpected capsize it you can’t uncleat in time. They are particularly unsuited to newer sailors.

A hook will suffice but life is better with a ratchet block.
 
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