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Storage for Fast Rigging

Does anyone have any tips for how to store things so that it can be rigged quickly?

http://www.intensitysails.com/acrespco.html

That spar/sail cover from Intensity looks good, but I'm not sure how secure it is.

I'd love to be able to go from unloading the dolly to sailing in under 10 minutes like I hear is possible.

My boat is stored in a parking space at my condo. It's not in the best part of town. People have packages stolen off their doorstep, cars broken into, someone tried to steal the roof rack off my car once, etc.

Is there a way I could store the spars and sail on top of the boat in one of those spar/sail covers without having them stolen? Is it possible to use those over top of a deck cover? Any way that I could lock them down? I guess there's always a way, I'm just not sure I want to buy the cover before I know how I'll be able to secure it.

Any other tips for fast rigging? I've got the Laser Performance PDF, but I'm sure there are some tips for fast rigging that aren't included there. Mainly how to de-rig in order to make it faster to rig next time.

Thanks.
 

laser11

Member
You could try and get a lockpit - although when I tried to buy one apparently the manufacturer had stopped production for the time being. With a lockpit you could lock rigging and sail in the cockpit, then lock your spars together on top.
 

Deimos

Member
Sounds like there are two aspects: Security and rigging speed.

Some thoughts. If you arrive at your boat and find e.g. the kicker has been stolen then it will take you a long time to rig (by the time you have found a shop selling a replacement, rigged the lines, etc.).

When the boat is left somewhere, if it is locked-up really carefully, padlocks closing off the cockpit, etc. it tells everybody that there is something inside worth protecting, something worth stealing - sort of advertising value. In a dinghy park it might encourage somebody to move on the the next boat (where they will probably find nothing and move back you your "locked cabinet"). When they try and break in, the repairs will cost you loads more than the gear they take. Take kicker, compass, daggerboard, rudder, tiller, sail home (all in the one bag - easy). Just a normal top cover and probably the worst will be it cut open and they will find nothing worth nicking. Taking sail, kicker, etc. home is easy in one of those special bags, does not slow down rigging and means you will have it all next time you sail.

I found using "fast-pins" to attach XD kicker to mast and Cunningham to kicker made rigging a lot faster - but otherwise it is a really fast boat to rig as supplied. I find rolling the sail round a tube a lot quicker to pack the boat away (and better for the sail). But most rig/de-rig speed comes from getting used to how it all goes together and then it is pretty quick whatever "specials" you have done.

Personally I would not go for the Intensity mast bag (or similar) you posted a link to as having the mast left joined (overhanging bow and stern) would be a nuisance (particularly when you try and put the cover on !!). If things get wet I prefer allowing plenty of air circulation. But I'm sure others may love such things. I think mast bags like that are more use when you have a stayed mast which does not split into two halves and has a mass of halyards and rigging that has to stay attached when the boat is de-rigged.

Ian
 

Merrily

Administrator
I've been storing my boat inside of a box-style trailer. I can leave the boom pretty much rigged. It's an expensive solution though, and your yacht club may not allow one in a boat space. Mine does.
 
Thanks for all the tips. What do you mean by "fast pin"?

The guy just dropped off my boat. He has the spars inside some individual covers that are connected. Nice setup there. He has them stored underneath the top cover.

Where the boat will be stored is in my condo parking lot, in a bad part of town where people try to steal things all the time. It won't be at a yacht club or anything.

I'm thinking the spars will be fine stored under the cover. I don't know of anyone who is going around a big city looking for Laser spars to steal. The trailer will be locked to keep easy theft away.

I'll be keeping the rudder, daggerboard, control lines and stuff in an Intensity bag that came with it, and bringing it upstairs.

I'm gonna be rolling the sails around some PVC and storing them in sail bags in my condo.

I guess for trailering I need to get some of those spar holders so they aren't just sliding around under the cover, although I guess I might be able to just tie them down still in their spar covers.
 

Deimos

Member
Thanks for all the tips. What do you mean by "fast pin"?
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ekT09UCv_JYC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=vang+quick+release+pin&source=bl&ots=kW1er2gpFe&sig=aO-iop0BsUZYcRYn_2MLuYN50TM&hl=en&ei=Ec8XTLGCBcuU4gabxtGRDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=vang%20quick%20release%20pin&f=false

Make sure you get exactly the right size - but as it sounds like you are in the US this is unlikely to be too difficult (harder for us outside the US where many fittings are sized metric except the Harken vang is imperial and metric pins don't fit properly (they can drop-out)).

Ian
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
Unless you have a valet, like Paul Goodison in the video, and your boat is already on a dolly, ten minutes is a bit outlandish, IMHO.


Moreover, as Deimos already pointed out, security is much more important than a few minutes extra rigging your boat.
I typically trailer my boat from home to the marina, just like you would be doing. It takes me about 30 min to rig. I don't rush because I don't want to find out on the water that I have forgotten something. Then it takes me ten minutes or so to launch the boat and re-park the car. If it's a busy day, it may take longer because I might have to wait in line to use the launching ramp. So be it.
 

Deimos

Member
Got it. Looks good.

I need to get that book I suppose huh?
Different people recommend different books. I would recommend you visit you local chandler and look through their selection and chose one that has a decent amount of guidance at your level (some can be very basic and talk for ages about rigging, launching, etc.), others are more advanced. They are probably all good - just different people get on with different descriptions/styles/levels.

Ian
 
Unless you have a valet, like Paul Goodison in the video, and your boat is already on a dolly, ten minutes is a bit outlandish, IMHO.

YouTube - How to rig a Laser by Britain's Olympic Sailor

Moreover, as Deimos already pointed out, security is much more important than a few minutes extra rigging your boat.
I typically trailer my boat from home to the marina, just like you would be doing. It takes me about 30 min to rig. I don't rush because I don't want to find out on the water that I have forgotten something. Then it takes me ten minutes or so to launch the boat and re-park the car. If it's a busy day, it may take longer because I might have to wait in line to use the launching ramp. So be it.
Well, I have the right-on trailer, so my boat is already on the dolly, which should help.

I just know myself, and I know that I'm lazy and also don't have a lot of time. The more time it takes to rig the boat, the less I'll go sailing. This was part of the problem when I had a Laser before. But that was with the old style stuff, so it took much longer.

I'll head to West Marine later this week to pick up a few pieces that I need to finish the boat and see which book looks good to me.

Mostly right now I want a book to show me all the little maintenance and rigging tips and tricks. Soon I'll want a book to show me the tips and tricks to be faster.
 
While we're on the topic of rigging.

My boat I bought this morning came with a the new outhaul/cunningham still in their box, but with no instructions.

The instructions I found online don't match the line colors of mine.

http://www.sailboats.co.uk/LaserXDOuthaulCunninghamRigging.pdf

I have a blue control line about 18 feet long, and an orange control line about 13 feet long.

I have 2 short pieces of pink skinny line, a long piece of skinny pink line, and a short piece of skinny black line.

The black line is 2.5 feet long, one short pink line is about 3.25 feet long, one is about 2 feet long, and the long pink line is about 10 feet long.

Can anyone tell me what these are? Perhaps relate them to the lines in the instructions I linked? Or in another set of instructions if there are better ones.

edit: I see in the book that he uses a quick pin with a ring for the top and a bell type on the bottom. He ties a safety line on the ring of the top. Is there a reason to use two different types? I can't source a ring type locally (West Marine is my only local "chandlery", if you can even call it that), only the bell type. Would it be ok to use two of the bell types or do I need that safety line (what's it there for? keeping you from dropping the pin in the water?)

Thanks.
 

Deimos

Member
edit: I see in the book that he uses a quick pin with a ring for the top and a bell type on the bottom. He ties a safety line on the ring of the top. Is there a reason to use two different types? I can't source a ring type locally (West Marine is my only local "chandlery", if you can even call it that), only the bell type. Would it be ok to use two of the bell types or do I need that safety line (what's it there for? keeping you from dropping the pin in the water?)
I used the same two different types as in the photo - never tried anything different to cannot comment on any issues that might arise (and don't have boat in front of me to check. Certainly both types are available but you may have to order online (I had to get mine sent across from the US). I got the harder to find one (the top Cunningham one) from West Coast Marine who post and advertise here - very helpful.

Be aware if you intend to race at regatta level that the arrangement does break the rules. There was a change being voted on last year but I never heard if it was approved or not (or still in process).

Ian

Edit: Made me think so I've just checked the rules and I believe the 2011 changes now allow the arrangement (but please do correct me if I am wrong). I believe the change to rule Part 1 Rule 3 e ii allows the Cunningham to be attached to the kicker/vang fitting and that new rule 24 allows the pins to be tied to something (in this case the kicker/vang clock/clear arrangement).
 

jeffers

Active Member
I don't think being rigged in 10 minutes is unreasonable.

Now being unpacked, rigged and changed in 10 minutes is.... It depends on what you calss as rigging time....

For instance when I get to the club I drop my sail and foils off at the boat, take the cover off and unpcked the foils before pulling it round to the launch area (stopping for a chat or 2 whilst in progress as well).

Once the boat is at the launch area I can rig it in around 10 minutes.
 
I used the same two different types as in the photo - never tried anything different to cannot comment on any issues that might arise (and don't have boat in front of me to check. Certainly both types are available but you may have to order online (I had to get mine sent across from the US). I got the harder to find one (the top Cunningham one) from West Coast Marine who post and advertise here - very helpful.

Be aware if you intend to race at regatta level that the arrangement does break the rules. There was a change being voted on last year but I never heard if it was approved or not (or still in process).

Ian

Edit: Made me think so I've just checked the rules and I believe the 2011 changes now allow the arrangement (but please do correct me if I am wrong). I believe the change to rule Part 1 Rule 3 e ii allows the Cunningham to be attached to the kicker/vang fitting and that new rule 24 allows the pins to be tied to something (in this case the kicker/vang clock/clear arrangement).
So what is the purpose of the safety line tied around the top pin? Where do you tie the other end? It's hard to see in the picture in the book. Are there better pictures somewhere of a full new rigging setup?
 

Deimos

Member
So what is the purpose of the safety line tied around the top pin? Where do you tie the other end? It's hard to see in the picture in the book. Are there better pictures somewhere of a full new rigging setup?
On mine I have a short bit of line tied to the top pin, through the hole on the middle of the kicker (block) and then tied to the other pin. It keeps the pins attached to the kicker (actually attached to each other and running through a small hole in kicker so neither pin can separate from the kicker assembly).

The hole I run the small line through is visible in the pic (surrounded by a circle of lightening holes). Unlike the pic I put the pins through from different directions (so the safety line does not need to cross the vang/kicker block). But I imagine there is no "right way" so check what you feel best when you come to fit the pins. Certainly putting the pins through in different directions does not mean you have to walk round the boat.

But it is a very quick boat to rig/de-rig even as standard.

With mine I had a "ring" with the rudder stock, supposed to put it through a small hole in one of the pintles (to stop the rudder coming off). I never bother with this as there is a spring clip to hold the rudder on (in a capsize) and it would be a real fiddle. Maybe I am wrong leaving this off but most others at my clubs don't use it either (but they all have the spring clips as a safety thing).

Ian
 

Sailorchick

Member
With mine I had a "ring" with the rudder stock, supposed to put it through a small hole in one of the pintles (to stop the rudder coming off). I never bother with this as there is a spring clip to hold the rudder on (in a capsize) and it would be a real fiddle. Maybe I am wrong leaving this off but most others at my clubs don't use it either (but they all have the spring clips as a safety thing).

Ian
I always use the pin in the rudder (and I believe Noble Marine strongly recommend it) as that spring clip can and does fail on occasion. Had an interesting race many years ago in a borrowed boat. Screaming reach and the steering went really light - rudder had managed to come off the back of the boat. I had just enough time to realise what had happened before the inevitable wipe out. Putting a rudder back on a turtled boat is harder than you think!

Also makes it a lot harder for safety crews to remove. I have lost a rudder previously due to the safety crews dropping it whilst recovering my laser (I was on shore recovering from an asthma attack). They did admit it was hard to remove!
 
Bought two of the fast pins with the loop on them from APS. Not cheap, but cheaper than other places. $15 each still seems a bit crazy to me. I'm just gonna tie them together with a line that loops through the vang somewhere. That way I don't have to put them back in when derigging, just pull them out and let them hang.

I've got a bunch of stuff coming in this week. SS Mast disc, teflon mast disc, new bottom plug for bottom section of mast, new traveler fairleads, new mainsheet spring, new daggerboard brake (illegal one!, shhh), new hiking strap, drysuit, etc.

Hopefully I can get it all installed and get on the water this weekend. I'm itching to get back out there. It's been too long since I last sailed, and even that was on a big cruising cutter, boring.

I'm sure I'll have more stupid questions once I get to rigging. I'm still not sure how to rig the new cunningham and outhaul (see my question above) if anyone has any ideas which color lines are for what.
 

Deimos

Member
Bought two of the fast pins with the loop on them from APS. Not cheap, but cheaper than other places. $15 each still seems a bit crazy to me. I'm just gonna tie them together with a line that loops through the vang somewhere. That way I don't have to put them back in when derigging, just pull them out and let them hang.
Make sure you ordered the right sizes (for the Harken kicker/vang the block to mast is a different size from the Cunningham attachment at the top).

Ian
 

Deimos

Member
With mine I had a "ring" with the rudder stock, supposed to put it through a small hole in one of the pintles (to stop the rudder coming off). I never bother with this as there is a spring clip to hold the rudder on (in a capsize) and it would be a real fiddle. Maybe I am wrong leaving this off but most others at my clubs don't use it either (but they all have the spring clips as a safety thing).
I always use the pin in the rudder (and I believe Noble Marine strongly recommend it) as that spring clip can and does fail on occasion. Had an interesting race many years ago in a borrowed boat. Screaming reach and the steering went really light - rudder had managed to come off the back of the boat. I had just enough time to realise what had happened before the inevitable wipe out. Putting a rudder back on a turtled boat is harder than you think!

Also makes it a lot harder for safety crews to remove. I have lost a rudder previously due to the safety crews dropping it whilst recovering my laser (I was on shore recovering from an asthma attack). They did admit it was hard to remove!
Maybe I should start using mine. I do still carry it around attached to my rudder/daggerboard bag. They are such a "pain" to fit/remove (though I have probably only every done it once) - but am glad to accept advice so will try and make the effort.

Many thanks
Ian
 
Make sure you ordered the right sizes (for the Harken kicker/vang the block to mast is a different size from the Cunningham attachment at the top).

Ian

Seriously? I even measured my Harken vang. They're different lengths, but the same diameter I think. I hope?

I just bought 2 1/4" by 1" useable length. They're longer than needed, but I wasn't sure if 3/4" long was long enough for the top one, and I didn't feel like having two different sizes, especially since the two that came with the vang appear to be the same length.
 

Deimos

Member
Make sure you ordered the right sizes (for the Harken kicker/vang the block to mast is a different size from the Cunningham attachment at the top).

Ian
Seriously? I even measured my Harken vang. They're different lengths, but the same diameter I think. I hope?

I just bought 2 1/4" by 1" useable length. They're longer than needed, but I wasn't sure if 3/4" long was long enough for the top one, and I didn't feel like having two different sizes, especially since the two that came with the vang appear to be the same length.
Just been and double checked (as I keep my kicker/vang at home) and mine (a Harken one) is definitely different sizes - both length and diam. The diam is critical because they are held in place with small ball bearings that part protrude when the pin is in place and thus have to be the exact correct size or they will drop our (hence when I initially got metric sized ones available in Europe they turned-out to be no good and I had to have imperial measurement ones ordered from the US). Maybe the Harken vang has changed since I got mine so I can only make definitive statements about mine (which I got new from PSC - so nobody had drilled it out or anything nasty like that). Diam is critical. Unfortunately I cannot tell you what diam mine are as my vernier gauge is a metric one (which is no use for imperial measurements. I would have thought APS would have a Laser Harken kicker around to try some on to supply you the correct sizes.

Ian
 
Just been and double checked (as I keep my kicker/vang at home) and mine (a Harken one) is definitely different sizes - both length and diam. The diam is critical because they are held in place with small ball bearings that part protrude when the pin is in place and thus have to be the exact correct size or they will drop our (hence when I initially got metric sized ones available in Europe they turned-out to be no good and I had to have imperial measurement ones ordered from the US). Maybe the Harken vang has changed since I got mine so I can only make definitive statements about mine (which I got new from PSC - so nobody had drilled it out or anything nasty like that). Diam is critical. Unfortunately I cannot tell you what diam mine are as my vernier gauge is a metric one (which is no use for imperial measurements. I would have thought APS would have a Laser Harken kicker around to try some on to supply you the correct sizes.

Ian
Interesting. I'll have to check when I get home. The bottom one (vang to mast) is definitely 1/4", since I've found that related on a few sites around, including APS (but only when you go to buy the Laser Vang).

Nobody seems to mention the diameter of the top hole, but I guess I'll find out when I get home. I believe I have a standard caliper gauge somewhere. You could use the metric one and just do the conversion, couldn't you? They didn't make it something strange like 7/64" or something. The only two quick pin sizes I can find are 3/16 or 1/4", so I'd imagine it's one of those.
 
You're most definitely correct. I can't believe I didn't notice it before. The top hole is much smaller.

I can't find my calipers anywhere, not sure where they went.

Measuring with a ruler I'm pretty sure the top is 3/16", which makes sense as that's the other common size.

Just sent APS an e-mail asking to change my order since it hasn't shipped. The top I'm almost positive is 3/16" diam, and 0.75" usable length.

The bottom is 1/4" diam and 0.5" usable length.

I asked them for those two instead of what I ordered. Hopefully they can make the change.
 

sorosz

Member
You could try and get a lockpit - although when I tried to buy one apparently the manufacturer had stopped production for the time being. With a lockpit you could lock rigging and sail in the cockpit, then lock your spars together on top.
I've owned Lockpits with 3 different boats and have had great success with them. The last one I got was a couple years ago from Sailing Pro Shop in Long Beach. It is listed on their website but currently out of stock. When I got one before that I had to place the order and then wait a long time - I believe the manufacturer makes them as a small sideline so he only makes batches periodically. It was frustrating waiting of course but it's a niche product so there isn't a huge demand (and they take up a lot of room so storing tons of them is likely to be a pain). To me, they've been worth it since it saves me having to schlep my gear around.

While it is true that a moderately determined thief could potentially decide to break in and do damage, I suspect most items that go missing in the dinghy park are a result of someone who decides they "need" those items for their sailing rather than a regular thief who is stealing stuff to sell. There probably isn't much of a resale market for stolen Laser gear so your average thief probably won't get much crack for a stolen vang. . .
 

Capsized

Member
Is there a local club in a more secure neighborhood (or with a storage space) where you could store your boat?

It will likely add to the annual cost, but for peace of mind it may be worth it.
 
There's two sailing clubs nearby. One is a long way across the lake, and the other is for the rich folks.

I also may not always sail at that lake. I thought about a storage place near me, but the cheapest I found was $44/month.

I feel ok leaving it in the parking lot. I'm just going to run a couple chains through the dinghy and trailer and use a couple cable locks to lock the boat to the dinghy.

I don't think the stolen market is very good for sailboats, as someone said. I don't think I'll store the sails outside though.

The spars I'll keep on the deck. The sails I'm gonna keep rolled around PVC and stored in my outside closet on the porch, along with the blade bag with all the other stuff.

I bought a 4 spar carrier from Intensity, so I'm gonna use that for the spars plus whichever sail I take. The blade bag and everything else will just go in the back of my wagon (estate for you UK folks).

I tried on my new drysuit for the first time last night. I should be worrying more about how long it takes to put that damn thing on than about rigging the boat.
 

glexpress

Member
I secure the parts for our Lasers in my condo with a Remington 870 and a Tula 54' SKS, the hulls stored in my buddies garage are protected with a similar armament, except his SKS is a Norinco, year unknown. :p
 
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