Sailing a Capri in the Red Sea - Egypt!!

Bond

Member
Hi everybody.

I live in Cairo, Egypt and I have a weekend house on the beach on the red sea. It's a windy spot and I regularly windsurf there. I never sailed before but I'm already crazy about it and would love to buy a boat and start learning. Sailing is unfortunately not popular in Egypt and there is only one club that carries the Topper brand. I'm not very impressed. I have read a lot until I learnt about the Capri and read really a lot in this forum. I really like this boat and I'm currently investigating how I can get it picked up and shipped from the USA to Egypt. Which will probably cost me a lot but I'm willing to do it. I have a few questions:

1. Anyone has any info or recommendation regarding shipping the boat overseas? Any recommended company to deal with? Any advice or input with regards to this?

2. This will be my first boat and my first sailing experience. I will probably take friends, kids and family along but my guess is I will single handedly sail the boat most of the time. Is the Capri the right boat to start with? I plan to sail when the wind is low and I'm more interested in cruising and not necessarily racing.

3. The boat will be stored right on the beach in front of my house. Is it easy to launch and beach? Easy to pull out on the trailer? Or Dolly? Alone or will I need four guys to pull out with me?

4. What about spare parts and support considering it will be the only Capri in Egypt? Is it easy to buy all and any necessary spare part online?

Appreciate any help as I'm in a real dilemma.

Thanks
 
Topper vs Capri 14.2

The Topper series of boats are more in line with racing skiffs than the 14.2 but like the Topper the 14.2 is not a cruser/family boat. It sounds like a Catalina or Precision 18 is more in line with what you are looking for. The catch being that you plan to beach it. They're not really good beaching boats but if you plan to take your family out on the water they are better suited for it than the Topper. If beaching is important then you ought to look at a cat rig. I believe Topper also makes them.
 
Thanks Joe for your reply. The Capri 18 or the Precision look really nice but too big for beaching and this is very important.

A cat rig is like the Hobbie Cat for example? If yes then this is really what I don't want. I want a real boat experience. A drier ride. And more stable.

Is the Capri 14.2 difficult to beach?

Also if you're familiar with the Topper, what do you think of the Topaz Magno?
 
3. The boat will be stored right on the beach in front of my house. Is it easy to launch and beach? Easy to pull out on the trailer? Or Dolly? Alone or will I need four guys to pull out with me?

I think it depends very much on what the beach is like. I grew up in southern England where we hauled boats across pebble beaches as kids. That was hard work.

I've just bought a the Expo model Capri and started sailing in lakes in Texas which is a dream in comparison because you reverse the boat down a nice, smooth concrete ramp into the water on a trailer. Unhook it and you're pretty much ready to go. You can see the process on youtube videos like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH3DxLX5hJg

If you beach is firm enough to take vehicles, slopes at the right angle and the waves aren't too big I guess you can do something similar.

Going back to my homeland, the local fisherman used to have semi-permanent strips across the beach for the trailer wheels and a winch above the high water line to pull the boat across the beach (we had a near 20ft tidal range!). Maybe something like that would work for you?

Apart from that I can move the Expo on its trailer on flat concrete but I'm not strong enough to pull it up the ramp by hand. All-up the boat and trailer probably weigh around 500 pounds ( 220 Kg ) I think. Empty weight is around 350 pounds (150 Kg) so you won't want to carry it too far but that's obviously an option for a group of you if the beach won't take a dolly and/or you have to get through the breakers.

I'm not enough of an expert to recommend a type of boat but I find the Expo 14.2 nice and easy to rig, reasonably stable and fairly easy to handle provided you're positive when tacking.

A final thought. If you have trouble getting a boat shipped from the US, do you have the opportunity to get one in Europe?

Good luck,

Bernard
 
14.2

The 14.2 is safe to beach but difficult to hall onto a trailer from the beach. Since it uses a center board instead of a dagger board you stand a good chance of damaging the skirt if you drag it up the beach. Last, the 14.2 has a generous cockpit but it's really designed for a crew of two. You can carry more but only in light winds. As for stability your best bet is a Cat rig.
I've seen Toppers in Crete but I've not sailed one. I looked at there web site and I think any of the dagger board designs will fit your needs. Again, the Cat rigs will be the most stable but least maneuverable.
 
Thank u all for your replies. It's really helpful.

What about my other questions:

Is it easy to learn sailing in a Capri?

What about buying spare parts online, is it available? Good idea?

Another option I'm looking at are the Swallow Boats from the UK. They sell kits for you to build at your home. I'm looking at either the Trouper 12 or the Storm 15. They are beautiful boats but I never did any wood work before but I'm sure I can find some help. Any thoughts here?
 
Is it easy to learn sailing in a Capri?

My guess is if you're a proficient windsrufer you won't find sailing too hard, but if you want to cut the risk, couldn't you find one of the Sharm el Sheikh (or similar) resorts that offers sailing as a recreation to give you some quick lessons before you invest 1,000's of dollars in a boat and shipping?

Capri Joe : when you talk about "Cat rigs" am I right to think you're talking about a single sail monohull with the mast well forward, not a catamaran? Which is basically the Expo? If so, as I said earlier mine is good and stable but you've got to be positive when tacking. I've yet to really find out how close to the wind it will sail, but I suspect it isn't great. Is that what you were thinking about when you wrote "least maneuverable"?

And yes, I agree about capacity. We had three adults in mine last weekend and, in light winds we weren't moving about a lot but I can easily see how we would have tripped over each other if we'd been trying to push it harder.
 
Very interesting. So basically the dream of taking the wife and two kids for a cruise in light wind is not realistic! :(

I also agree Bernarrd that I should take a few sailing lessons before I decide on which boat, I will do that. Thank u.
 
Very interesting. So basically the dream of taking the wife and two kids for a cruise in light wind is not realistic! :(

It depends on how big the kids are!

In your position I'd get some experience, hopefully not in the smallest, lightest boat(s) with tiny cockpits and then make my decision.

FYI : if you can solve the logistics issues of getting them in the water, and you need more space, there are a couple of slightly bigger day sailors, one a cousin to the 14.2 from Catalina, and another from Hunter I believe. Beware the weight of them though!
 
Cat Rigs

Bernardd: there are lots of variations on the Cat Rig but you've got the just of it. They're forward mast with a single sail. There easy to sail but they don't point up as clean as a sloop.

Bond: the capri 14.2 is easy to sail but you have to balance the boat by moving your crew to windward. If you are not well rehearsed you may be surprised as to how quick the boat will roll. It's a fun boat but not a cruser; you should expect to get wet.
 
Bernarrd: would the Topaz Magno be a good option to gain some experience in? My kids are 6 and 10 by the way.
 
Bernarrd: would the Topaz Magno be a good option to gain some experience in? My kids are 6 and 10 by the way.

I think it would be fine given that you probably don't have a lot of choice in your area. My suggestion was to do a few hours in a boat, probably with an instructor at the outset, and much sure you can handle it, but above all that you ENJOY it - it's all a waste of time unless that magic quotient is there.

If that's all good, then start looking for a boat based on what you've experienced. To be honest the pictures on the Topper web site with four people in a Magno look a bit artificial to me - models do that because they're paid to but I don't think it would be the fun they're trying to portray.

It seems to me that you're a bit caught in hoping to find a boat that's big enough for four, one presumably soon to be a hulking teenager, that's still small enough to launch from an unprepared beach. Incidentally I'd be wary of the weights in the Topper pages - they seem to be for the empty hull yet the mast and sails weigh a bit.

Good luck with the lessons - I assume they're pretty much year round in the Red Sea?

Bernard
 
Thanks Bernarrd for your answers, you got it right. But to be perfectly honest with you my guess is a lot of the times it will be either just me or myself and my daughter who is 10. So add this to the equation.

To Capri Joe, Bernarrd and all:

I would like to take your opinion on two boats of the Swallow Boats class; The Trouper 12 and the Storm 15. Please check them out at this website: www.swallowboats.co.uk
Let me know what you think of these boats from your experience and also in line with my needs..

Thanks a lot.
 
Trouper 12 and the Storm 15

Pros: Both boats are very nice looking and roomy boats, Easy to sail, and safe for the family.
Cons: Both boats are high maintenance boats. You will have to balance the time you spend sailing these boats with the time you spend maintaining them. As for the sailing experience these two boats will sail nicely but they wont be real exciting to sail.

The Trouper 12 is the easiest to sail and least cost to maintain due to the way it's rigged. In comparison to the Topper's you were looking at these boats won’t be as much fun to sail but they will surely be dryer.

I have to agree with Barnarrd. You should take some lessons and go for a test sail before you buy any boat.
 
Thanks Capri Joe. Very informative.

What kind of maintenance should I expect to do on annual basis?

Do you really think the Trouper is roomy?

What do you think of buying the kit and building it myself and with the help of a carpenter that should be easy and cheap to do in Egypt.
 
Bond, it's obvious you have now been bitten by the sailing bug and especially by the capri bug like everyone on this forum. If you have'nt already called them, I would suggest you give Catalina a call and see what they have to say about shipping a boat to you.

On the other hand, building a boat from plans or kit could be very rewarding. For instance, take a look at these guys:

https://www.boatdesigns.com/15-Glen-L-15-sloop/products/443/
 
Glen-L 15

These are nice looking boats! No doubt it would be the bell of the ball on most lakes and well deserving of the pride you would garner in building it. Everybody loves a wood boat but few love them enough to maintain them. I love the simplicity of my Capri. I spend more time sailing it than I do on cleaning a maintenance. I previously owned a Catalina 25 with a good bit of teak and windows. It took a lot of time at the dock for maintenance and cleaning and after 5 years I sold it and started looking for a capri.
 
These are nice looking boats! No doubt it would be the bell of the ball on most lakes and well deserving of the pride you would garner in building it. Everybody loves a wood boat but few love them enough to maintain them. I love the simplicity of my Capri. I spend more time sailing it than I do on cleaning a maintenance. I previously owned a Catalina 25 with a good bit of teak and windows. It took a lot of time at the dock for maintenance and cleaning and after 5 years I sold it and started looking for a capri.


I totally concur, originally I was all stoked about building, fortunately for me, I am a great procrastinator which gave me time to come to my senses, I wouldn't change my C14.2 for any reason. It's easy to handle in and out of the water, I love the self bailing for clean up and 4 on board has never been a problem; if anything, it's less work to sail with the extra ballast.
 
Thank u Woodbark, thank you Capri Joe.

That's is also what I believed initially. That it would be ok to sail with the C 14.2 having the family on board specially that I will probably do this when it's light wind and not most of the sailing time. I will probably be alone or with my 10 year old daughter or with one of my friends most of the time.

What do you guys think of the Expo then, is it worth consideration or it's not a very successful model?

By the way, yesterday I took my first sailing lesson in the river Nile :). I think i will enjoy this hobby. The wind was very light though. We used a wooden boat also called The Nile a very old model done in Egypt by the British long time ago. The wooden boats really don't look nice if theybare not in tip top shape. I agree. And the sun in Egypt is strong.
 
Here is the link to the Nile boat that I sailed yesterday.


http://www.alameinegypt.com/Alamein/Alamein_Nile_Class_Sailing_boats.html


It's an absolutely classic boat, but as it says on the tin, it's a 1930's British design. If you look at the spec:

Length: 5.0 m (16.4 ft)

Weight: 470 kg (1,036 pounds)

Sail Area (Main sail + Jib): 16 sq.m (172 sq. ft)

and compare it to the Expo


Length: 13' 3" (waterline) to 15' 2" (overall)

Weight: 154Kg / 340 punds

Sail area: 9.66 sq. m / 104 sq ft.


There's nothing about the draught for the Nile, but the Expo (as the original 14.2) draws just inches of water with the board up and I'd imagine pretty much every wooden boat would have to sit lower in the water because of the extra weight.

There will be a world of difference in performance, plus in your circumstances, hauling a 340 pound across a beach will be WAY easier than moving a 1,000+ pound boat. From the pictures I'd guess the Expo cockpit is at least as big, possibly bigger than the Nile class. Certainly for launching I guess a modern glass fibre design is going to be much more practical, not to mention the maintenance issues Capri Joe touched on earlier.

I'm biased about the Expo but for me it's not the fastest boat in the world, but it's relatively stable and in my conditions (1 mile freshwater lakes) it's by far the easiest, and that counts for a lot.

I don't know for sure but I imagine the Expo hasn't been the most successful commercial day sailor / dinghy - mine is #137 so I assume 250 or so have been built. The market in second hand Expos is pretty small - it took me months to find one that was in driving distance. At one point I was calculating the cost of a Uhaul to bring one of the few on sale from 1,200-1,500 miles away but that was going to add almost 50% to the cost of the boat. In your circumstances finding a used Expo at a reasonable price and getting it shipped to Egypt sounds incredibly hard, and I doubt there's going to be a huge percentage saving over finding a discount on a new one.
 
Dear Bernarrd, thanks a lot for taking the time to reply in details to my post, I really appreciate that.

I'm certainly not considering to buy the nile boat. Up till now I'm contemplating the C14.2 Mod 3 or Expo but obviously there is the hardship of buying it remotely and shipping to Egypt. The other option I'm contemplating is to buy a boat kit and build in Egypt that maybe an easier option, a fun activity and a more beautiful boat. I'm looking at the Swallow Boats the Trouper 12 and the Storm 15, which are both less heavy then the C14 but obviously needs a lot of maintenance.

This is why I'm back to the C14.2. I didn't get the last part of your post "find a discount on a new one"?! Where can I find that? Who offers discounted new ones? Can you direct me in this matter?

What about Catalina company, do they sell used C14s? Do they ship internationally? Any info on that matter?

Appreciate anyones response.

Thanks
 
The other option I'm contemplating is to buy a boat kit and build in Egypt that maybe an easier option, a fun activity and a more beautiful boat. I'm looking at the Swallow Boats the Trouper 12 and the Storm 15, which are both less heavy then the C14 but obviously needs a lot of maintenance.

I'd caution you to check the weight and what's included very carefully. From what I understand of the construction it's hard to construct a wooden boat that's lighter than the composite equivalent.


This is why I'm back to the C14.2. I didn't get the last part of your post "find a discount on a new one"?! Where can I find that? Who offers discounted new ones? Can you direct me in this matter?

What about Catalina company, do they sell used C14s? Do they ship internationally? Any info on that matter?

My understanding is Catalina sell the 14.2's & Expo's via dealers, and I've never seen them sell used models directly.

If you look at my nearest dealer:

http://yoursailboatshop.crehosting....boats-Catalina-14.2-EXPO/c11_14_23/index.html

notice they're offering 'take advantage of our "Fall Dealer Truckload Purchase"' - sailboats don't seem to be as competitive as cars, but there are deals to be done with dealers, particularly if they've had the inventory a while. I assume you can get a list of dealers, including those outside the US, by contacting Catalina customer service - my experience has been good. Armed with a list I'd start contacting dealers to see what they offer, and whether they can offer shipping.

FYI : there are other fibreglass boats in a similar size range that might have local support in your region.
 
FYI : there are other fibreglass boats in a similar size range that might have local support in your region.

Any boat in particular you have in mind?

Thank you all for the advise I contacted Catalina and they put me in contact with one of their dealers in Florida Tiki Water Sports that do international shipping. I'm just not sure yet if they have used boats. Probably not.
 
Any boat in particular you have in mind?

I didn't get a chance to look at them closely, nor find anyone who had sailed them, but when I was struggling to locate a used Expo I started thinking about boats like the Hunter 15 (previous model was the 146 I think) and the Precision 15. These are like the 14.2 not the Expo. I'm sure there are others.
 
Tiki has the Hunter 140 2008 Demo new for 5000 USD with trailer.

I don't like its looks. Any feedback?
 
Tiki has the Hunter 140 2008 Demo new for 5000 USD with trailer.

I don't like its looks. Any feedback?

I'd been considering the 146:

http://huntermarine.com/Models2011/HunterPreviousModels/H146Brochure2003.pdf

not the 140. The 146 and the newer 15

http://huntermarine.com/Models2011/15/15Index2011.html

seem a bit puffed up to my eyes, but they would have done what I wanted if I hadn't found the Expo.

As I said earlier I've never found anyone who has either so I don't recommend them. The Precision 15 ( there's one on this site http://www.yankeeboat.com/boat-sales/used-sailboats ) look closer to the 14.2, though they seem a tad more expensive.
 
Tiki has the Hunter 140 2008 Demo new for 5000 USD with trailer.

I don't like its looks. Any feedback?

I would pass on the 140 and go for the 146. I personally don't like Hunter boats but from what you stated for your goals I think the 146 would be a good sub for the 14.2. You won't get the level of excitement you would get from the 14.2 but you will get the room, safety, handling and basic sailing experience you are looking for.
 
It seems like Expo is the recommendation but tough to find. Not impossible though.

The more I research it the more I feel confused.

I like about the Expo that I can sail it solo (155 lb) and very easy to launch and beach and will feel probably more comfortable in it with my kids since it's difficult to capsize. I'm just afraid that I get bored of it because it's not as exciting as the standard model. I also like the cooler box.

I like the looks of the standard model very much. I will probably find a used one easier and cheaper. I'm just afraid that it will be a difficult boat to manage on my own or with my 10 yr daughter. And end up not using it because I capsize all the time and my kids get scared of it.

Confused confused confused. :confused::confused::confused:
 
It seems like Expo is the recommendation but tough to find. Not impossible though.

The more I research it the more I feel confused.

I like about the Expo that I can sail it solo (155 lb) and very easy to launch and beach and will feel probably more comfortable in it with my kids since it's difficult to capsize. I'm just afraid that I get bored of it because it's not as exciting as the standard model. I also like the cooler box.

I like the looks of the standard model very much. I will probably find a used one easier and cheaper. I'm just afraid that it will be a difficult boat to manage on my own or with my 10 yr daughter. And end up not using it because I capsize all the time and my kids get scared of it.

Confused confused confused. :confused::confused::confused:

Go with the Sloop Rig 14.2. You can sail it with the jib furled and the main open until you get more comfortable with it. I sail mine single handed all the time and when the winds get above my comfort zone I furl the jib and keep going. You will learn more and enjoy sailing more with the sloop rig regardless of the make of boat.
 
It seems like Expo is the recommendation but tough to find. Not impossible though.

The more I research it the more I feel confused.

I like about the Expo that I can sail it solo (155 lb) and very easy to launch and beach and will feel probably more comfortable in it with my kids since it's difficult to capsize. I'm just afraid that I get bored of it because it's not as exciting as the standard model. I also like the cooler box.

I like the looks of the standard model very much. I will probably find a used one easier and cheaper. I'm just afraid that it will be a difficult boat to manage on my own or with my 10 yr daughter. And end up not using it because I capsize all the time and my kids get scared of it.

Confused confused confused. :confused::confused::confused:

That's part of why I was suggesting you get some time in a similar boat before trying to buy one. That will give you a good idea of what you can manage on your own, as well as the chance of ending up in the water.
 
I would encourage you to not fear the capsize too much, embrace it. I remember when I was a kid learning to sail we would take out the butterflies and sail in heavy wind and capsizing was the highlight of the experience. When you are young and fearless (assuming you daughter is a confident swimmer) going in to the drink is a blast. You may find that the excitement of getting a little wet will make your daughter want to sail, maybe she will find it more fun than you do. Like I said when I was a kid climbing in and around the boat was why we fell in love with sailing and I still enjoy the excitement of dumping once and a while. The capsize that is not fun is the one that is caused by an equipment malfunction and you are not expecting it, and it usually happens fast. Working on your boat and time with your gear is the only way to avoid these misfortunes, but somethings bound to go wrong eventually, you just have to get back on the horse and learn from experience. One last note on capsizing. It is not fun is when you have stuff around the boat that you can loose when you tip, so if you are prepared, with gear stowed, and crew familiar with your righting procedure you can enjoy it.
 
As kdub said previously, capsizing is a reality.
I always secure all my bags, coolers etc I carry on.
Where I sail, I have only 3 meters depth, so if I'm not quick enough in recovering the boat, the mast will stuck in the mud. Not funny, as i need then to rotate the boat so the current help me in quit the mast from the mud.
Also, practice first in small wind, small waves, and when you're confident, do it in more wind and waves. Never forget to unlock your sails before redressing your boat, you will find that the boat can go alone and leave you in the water watching a beautiful boat sailing away alone.
Not a good thing if your far away. Never panic, stay always calm.
Think twice how you will redress your boat.
If you have a Novice friend with you, explain him what you will do, and what you expect from him. Be sure he understand. Ask him if he is OK, and if you see he (or you) came out of forces, take a rest (if hypothermia is not an issue). If needed, you can step on the hull out of the water to take a rest and think.
I´m maybe dramatic, but believe me, I had to do it once when I capsize with a novice.
But, always have your life jacket on, and if sailing in cold weather, proper clothes is mandatory.
Patrick
 
Hi All, I'm currently searching for an Expo to buy and ship to Egypt where I sail (will start sailing) on the red sea. The Expo is proving more difficult to find and will cost more to ship since it has a slightly longer mast that will not fit in a 20' container and hence will need a 40' cont.

The standard C14.2 will probably be easy to find and cheaper to ship. my intentions with sailing is not racing but rather to go cruising with kids. Reef the main sail, anchor and just play around. So the Expo seemed perfect. I'm willing to reconsider the standard rig if someone assures me that I can still do the same with it. I also suspect that I will sail solo a lot.

The boat will be always stored on the beach trolley, so the mast will always stay stepped in and accordingly rigging should be easy for both models, correct?

Please Capri experts, advise me..
 

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