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Sail Comparison of new sails, is there a major difference?

shorefun

Active Member
So I have my blue and white sailboat at the club and I took it out for a sail. This is the blue long strip boat I did a major repair to the hull.

It sails great, but...

I am 6' 6" tall and the sail does not have a window. For me it feels unsafe no being able to see through the sail. The sail is in really good condition, crispy, with a bit of fade in one area and is a factory Sunfish made by North Sails.

I checked already and the only sail places that can install the windows are close to an hour away and I would have to drive it up and wait for them to install the window. They are really busy right now. The cost will be around $100.

I am contemplating just buying a new sail with a window. Looking at Sunfish direct they have the Vanguard sails at $300 and the non branded sails are $249. I kind of prefer the colors on the non-branded sails.

What is the build/ quality difference between the sails?

I am looking at the value of my sail may be around $100-$150 throw in the cost of fuel it might be even between buying new and having a window put in mine.
 

Breeze Bender

Breeze Bender
You might want to check out Neil Pryde- good sails, lots of color choices, and the price is right. A window is added to any sail for an additional $25. Made right in CT.
If you want the Sunfish on it you can make them from insignia cloth. I also see someone on ebay is selling them 2 for $25 (one for each side)
Sounds like your sail is otherwise in great shape. For top dollar I’d put it on eBay with some good pics. Shipping in US is about $15 so pass that on to the buyer.
You might come close to breaking even on the swap!
 

4cpus4me

Active Member
You might want to check out Neil Pryde- good sails, lots of color choices, and the price is right. A window is added to any sail for an additional $25. Made right in CT.
If you want the Sunfish on it you can make them from insignia cloth. I also see someone on ebay is selling them 2 for $25 (one for each side)
Sounds like your sail is otherwise in great shape. For top dollar I’d put it on eBay with some good pics. Shipping in US is about $15 so pass that on to the buyer.
You might come close to breaking even on the swap!
Those are some good prices on the sails if the quality is decent.
 

Smithnmin

Member
The Pryde sails were cut very flat. No power. They also used to install windows with a grid pattern in them.
Pryde is listing its colored sails at 83.6 sq feet with slightly longer luff, leech and foot. Sunfish Direct colorful class legal sails are 75 sq ft. So it would seem that the Pryde sails offer a little more performance than the standard class legal...Yes?
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
Pryde is listing its colored sails at 83.6 sq feet with slightly longer luff, leech and foot. Sunfish Direct colorful class legal sails are 75 sq ft. So it would seem that the Pryde sails offer a little more performance than the standard class legal...Yes?
I don’t think so. Sunfish sails from the manufacturer have changed over the years , esp the racing sail which has a lot more draft, but still claim to be 75 sq feet. The Pryde sail may be more accurately measured, and the let new one I saw about 2 years ago was very flat.
 

Smithnmin

Member
I don’t think so. Sunfish sails from the manufacturer have changed over the years , esp the racing sail which has a lot more draft, but still claim to be 75 sq feet. The Pryde sail may be more accurately measured, and the let new one I saw about 2 years ago was very flat.
Ahh, okay. I have a race cut practice APS sail, do you happen to know anything about those? Are they the same dimensions as the class legal race cut? Since they are out of business, I'm having trouble finding any info. If I wanted a slightly less drafty sail for gusty mountain lake sailing do you have a company you would recommend? I don't need class legal.
 

tag

my2fish
Ahh, okay. I have a race cut practice APS sail, do you happen to know anything about those? Are they the same dimensions as the class legal race cut? Since they are out of business, I'm having trouble finding any info. If I wanted a slightly less drafty sail for gusty mountain lake sailing do you have a company you would recommend? I don't need class legal.
Did you earlier ask the same question on my blog?

Your best option would probably be a Minifish sail. You might find a used one for sale here on the Sunfish Forum, or Neil Pryde sells brand new ones for a pretty reasonable price. Neil Pryde Mini-Fish Sails
 

Smithnmin

Member
Did you earlier ask the same question on my blog?

Your best option would probably be a Minifish sail. You might find a used one for sale here on the Sunfish Forum, or Neil Pryde sells brand new ones for a pretty reasonable price. Neil Pryde Mini-Fish Sails
Yes, I did. I saw that you mentioned APS on your blog. A simple recreation sail may be enough of a reduction for my purpose. I'll take a look at the minifish sail.
 
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my2fish
Yes, I did. I saw that you mentioned APS on your blog. A simple recreation sail may be enough of a reduction for my purpose. I'll take a look at the minifish sail.
My understanding of the APS race cut sail and the Intensity Sails race cut sail is they are meant to be a close replica of the “class legal” version from LP. I’m not sure if just going to a rec sail would make enough difference, but you could try it.
Also might be worth looking into setting up a Jens rig. And adjusting your gooseneck setting depending on the wind speed.
 

Smithnmin

Member
My understanding of the APS race cut sail and the Intensity Sails race cut sail is they are meant to be a close replica of the “class legal” version from LP. I’m not sure if just going to a rec sail would make enough difference, but you could try it.
Also might be worth looking into setting up a Jens rig. And adjusting your gooseneck setting depending on the wind speed.
Absolutely! I have been doing a lot of research on rigging options. Thank you. I questioned trying out the original sail, which I still have, to see if it was any better, but I'm afraid it would shred into a million bits. It is super soft and thin, kind of like a bedsheet after over 40 years.
 
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sailcraftri

Well-Known Member
I sell new Sunfish sails with windows for $165 plus shipping. I have about 6 color choices.

Blue Wave: blue, light blue and white
Sunrise: Blue, red, orange, gold, yellow and white
Dragon: Blue, red, green, light blue, yellow and white
Mackinaw: Blue, white and green
Red and white
Go Navy: yellow, blue and white
 

shorefun

Active Member
I have spent $40 to get what I need to put in the sail myself.

I should add I have a friend who has a straight stitch heavy duty machine and does boat canvas and seats once in a while for people. It is $20 for the plastic, $13 for the thread and $5 for the basting tape from Sailrite. While straight stich is not the preferred, it works if you do a double stitch.

As an aside, you need to by 2 yards of plastic which is fairly wide. So there is enough materials to do a several sails. Turns out I have several sails for the club so I might practice some first.
 

kebwi

Member
I do not like the colors of the sails so that is not an option.
I agree. I just took my new (very old) Sunfish out for the first time this past weekend and the sail lacks a window. I am dismayed at the dismal color options of the racing sails. What gives? We can't go fast and look darn pretty doing it at the same time? Phooey.
 

kebwi

Member
I sell new Sunfish sails with windows for $165 plus shipping. I have about 6 color choices.

Blue Wave: blue, light blue and white
Sunrise: Blue, red, orange, gold, yellow and white
Dragon: Blue, red, green, light blue, yellow and white
Mackinaw: Blue, white and green
Red and white
Go Navy: yellow, blue and white
Are yours rec or racing shaped?
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Pryde is listing its colored sails at 83.6 sq feet with slightly longer luff, leech and foot. Sunfish Direct colorful class legal sails are 75 sq ft. So it would seem that the Pryde sails offer a little more performance than the standard class legal...Yes?
Two years ago, I bought two sails (unknowingly blind to manufacturer) from an Intensity sale (advertised here).

One was red, white, and blue, which I sold last month with a refurbished Sunfish. (It wasn't a Pryde sail).

The colorful Pryde sail went onto my poor, beleaguered, ex-racer Sunfish. Someone here bought my old, soft, sail on this forum. Shipping costs, even mailing an item made of fabric, ate up my anticipated "reward". :(

(To get sailing early in the season, I'd substituted needed epoxy hull repairs with about three feet of 2-inch white Gorilla tape). :oops:

Sailing alongside a buddy's pristine Viking clonefish, it was impossible to sail slow enough to keep a conversation going! :eek:
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
The sail areas listed by certain manufacturers are not reliable, IMHO.
I believe (!) that it's not that trivial to measure total area because of the depth of the sail.
 

bobpattison

New Member
The sail areas listed by certain manufacturers are not reliable, IMHO.
I believe (!) that it's not that trivial to measure total area because of the depth of the sail.
Guessing you didn't fair well in high school geometry?:) All sunfish sails built to the standard dimensions of 13.33, 14.5 and 13.33 are going to be at least 81 sqft. Add luff curve and foot round and you get to the 82-83sqft depending on how the luff and foot are shaped.
I have no idea where the "75" sqft area came from, but it was wrong then and it's wrong now.
Here's a simple way to check three sides of a triangle:
Easy to use if you don't know the right angle distance (Luff perpendicular) to figure out area in the more common high school geometry formula: as A=h*b / 2....and this is still a straight triangle...no rounds.

The depth of any sail (spinnakers excluded) comes from luff curve and foot round with about 2% in camber coming from broadseam...so when we (Neil Pryde Sails) say that our sails are a certain area this is based on the CAD calculated area of each panel, so in fact we are actually being very reliable and truthful.
Our sunfish sails have about 7.5 inches of luff round. I've sailed with them and they are far from being remotely flat. This is a myth that has been repeated on many posts here. Just saying, as I have been designing and making sails since 1976..pre-computer era to today's flood of technology and have a pretty good idea of what constitutes a flat or full sail.

Bob Pattison
Neil Pryde Sails
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Guessing you didn't fair well in high school geometry?:) All sunfish sails built to the standard dimensions of 13.33, 14.5 and 13.33 are going to be at least 81 sqft. Add luff curve and foot round and you get to the 82-83sqft depending on how the luff and foot are shaped.
I have no idea where the "75" sqft area came from, but it was wrong then and it's wrong now.
Here's a simple way to check three sides of a triangle:
Easy to use if you don't know the right angle distance (Luff perpendicular) to figure out area in the more common high school geometry formula: as A=h*b / 2....and this is still a straight triangle...no rounds.

The depth of any sail (spinnakers excluded) comes from luff curve and foot round with about 2% in camber coming from broadseam...so when we (Neil Pryde Sails) say that our sails are a certain area this is based on the CAD calculated area of each panel, so in fact we are actually being very reliable and truthful.
Our sunfish sails have about 7.5 inches of luff round. I've sailed with them and they are far from being remotely flat. This is a myth that has been repeated on many posts here. Just saying, as I have been designing and making sails since 1976..pre-computer era to today's flood of technology and have a pretty good idea of what constitutes a flat or full sail.

Bob Pattison
Neil Pryde Sails
Before a storm's "microburst" bent my mast and shredded my sail, I had a "race" sail I would have termed "blown-out". (Fully raised in calm air, the sail's foot would hang over both sides of the boom).

My Neil Pryde sail, which has already proven to be much better than a vintage (but new) Sunfish sail, is a straight shot from head to foot.

So, how can we tell when a Sunfish sail is actually "blown out"? :confused:
 

bobpattison

New Member
Woven sailcloth starts to lose it's ability to hold shape from the first time you use it...the physical action of sailing; luffing, tacking, capsizing and stuff into a bag at the end of the season all work to break down the resins that the fabric is impregnated with, which eventually will make the fabric softer and stretchier. The resin helps to keep the weave of the yarns 'tight' and as this changes over time so does the sail.
The other thing the kills the sails is UV...but this doesn't tend to affect the shape as much as the durability...a sail left on the mast all summer long will have areas that have been exposed to the sun that will become damaged and eventually so much weaker than the fabric that isn't exposed that it will tear easily.
Generally speaking the loads on a sunfish sail are low enough that the 'blowing out' of the shape isn't an issue for many years...and even then for recreational use at the cabin at the lake...who cares? The kids and guests just love being on the water having fun and they aren't concerned if the draft in the sails has moved from 45% to 55% in the sail...
In these applications I say use the sail until it dies. If you are racing for fun or sanctioned events then one assumes you're more critical of shape and performance and shape changes or inability of the sail to keep the shaped locked in when the breeze comes up will be more important to you.
In active, competitive one design classes sails are often replaced on a yearly basis. Think Stars, E-22, J-70, and many others that use woven sails and not laminate sails. Most sailors don't sail at that level, but for those that do this is as important as sanding the bottoms, fairing the keels, body weight...
bob pattison
 
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