Rule 42 a) = bull crap

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OliLaser

Guest
Thread starter #1
[FONT=KDDJLA+Arial,Arial]42.2 Prohibited Actions
a) pumping: repeated fanning of any sail either by trimming and releasing the sail or by vertical or athwartships body movement;

42.3 Exceptions
b) Except on a beat to windward, when surfing (rapidly accelerating down the leeward side of a wave) or planing is possible, the boat's crew may pull the sheet and the guy controlling any sail in order to initiate surfing or planing, but only once for each wave or gust of wind.

In planning conditions the sail can be pumped once for each wave. However the definition of a wave, or what constitutes a wave, is missing, also the definition of a gust is missing. If you own an anemometer you'll know the wind speed is never constant and that a gust or a(brief sudden increase) happens about once every millisecond or quicker. The way the rules are worded curently, in planing conditions pumping should be unlimited as it is impossible for the on water judges to prove that there is not a puff or that the little tiny ripple 'moving' your boat is not a wave.
Any thoughts? I will be using this defence next time a judge blows a whistle at me in 25 knots downwind for "pumping" what a joke.

Gust
A brief sudden increase in wind speed.

Wave
1. One of a series of ridges that moves across the surface of a liquid (especially across a large body of water).



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gouvernail

Active Member
#2
A few years ago I ran your thoughts by the international Judge team at a Laser world cham[pionships.
In addition to your comments I added, "You guys are mostly dealing with English as a second language. I know EXACTLY what the words mean and your interpretations are not in agreement with the English."

They say:
Waves are the big ones. The little ripples on top are just little ripples on top.

I say:
Gusts are obvious..They change the wind speed so that a person would say,"There is a gust of wind." Nobody calls every little change a gust. Thyey call little changes in velocity, "little changes in velocity."

having said that...

I love your style.

Rule 42 sucks!!

back when there was no damn stupid retarded restricting sit still so the old frail farts can keep up rule we had lots of laser regattas witrh over 100 boats.
CORK used to draw 300 boats. Annual North American salkes were alwyas over 10,000 new lasers.

Then some jerks decided that we were not ahving fun and changed the rules so the old and frail could compete with the hotshot young punks.

Dumbasses!!

And those who tolerate the restrictions on pumping ooching and rocking under the bullshit lie of "It wouldn't be racing anynmore" never sailed when IT WAS RACING!!!

Isn't it amazing that ..for example..ME..

I am an old fart i n his fifties. I cannot properly sail my Laser because people say the things I know how to do are too athletic and would make it impossible for others to compete.

Give me a break!!!

If we need to pussy down the physicality of the game to make folks more frial than a 55 year old fat guy competritive...we also need to quit calling it a sport and get the game the hell out of teh Olympics.

Rule 42 sucks!!!
 

Merrily

Administrator
#4
Venting here (with crudity) has all the power of grafitti, but without the anonymity. Gouvernail, you just love to torch those bridges! And just when you paid off the old one. Building bridges, playing within the system, will get something done. But continue with these tiresome useless rants, if you must.
 
#5
[FONT=KDDJLA+Arial,Arial] it is impossible for the on water judges to prove that there is not a puff or that the little tiny ripple 'moving' your boat is not a wave. [/FONT]
[FONT=KDDJLA+Arial,Arial]Any thoughts? [/FONT]
As far as i can gather from the many anecdotal examples published just about everywhere, it's not up to the judges to prove you broke the rule. It's up to you to prove you didn't. Take a look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/25q234
I put "legal" in quotes because that is what this discussion is all about - the clear division of legal vs not. Some of us read the rule as a very strict law, others look to the judges to control, others feel out the fleet and conform to the "playground rules".

I think that every Laser sailor needs to be able to sail under all three styles mentioned above:

Club racing tends to be very quiet with kinetic movement, and peer pressure is the rule. These races tend to be run under the strictest of peer law.

National level events, such as the 1998 Midwinters East, tend to have a Judge who makes his presence known, might make a few calls to set the tone (especially in the practice race), and generally keeps the top of the fleet in line. The Judge and the "norm" of the fleet will determine how much actual movement is tolerated. (Ian did an effective job of control at this event with very casual hints to the day's worse offenders on shore.)

Regional World qualifiers tend to have great US/Canadian sailors attend and fight for the top spots. In these events, sailors push the kinetic rules quite hard. I almost feel like this style regatta has the most diverse range of movements throughout the fleet. Judges at these events tend to avoid making calls, or focus largely on mark roundings and race management (that's really a guess).

World level (Dubai Worlds), and Olympic style regattas (SPA, pre-Olympics) tend to bring on the heavy hitter yellow flag Judges. I see movement escalate from the national events to these World events in general. The depth of the fleet seems to allow more movement, and the competitors seem happy to be judged fairly and closely. The competitors are EXPERT at identifying the Judge boat's location, and zeroing in on what the judges are calling. For example in Dubai, the Judges were extremely active on the starting line calling sculling and leech snapping. However downwind in the huge waves there were fairly leanient on their calls.


Peer pressure is a good point. Under such a system, gouvernail can use kinetics regardless of his age, if the RC agree. Old farts can choose not use kinetics if the RC agree.

It could be argued that gouvernail is an exceptional circumstnace and that 99% of old farts will prefer not to be "atheletic sailors" and unofficially influence any given RC. That argument can only be won by real life examples and not asssumption about what might/could happen owing to any commenters personal outlook on life.

Life is full of grey areas and politics. At 33 I can deal with that, even though I prefer a strict set of racing rules that is applied consistently.
 
#6
Gouvernail, you just love to torch those bridges! And just when you paid off the old one.
Cool! Is there a good story with that? Come on governail, you've been outed! Spill the beans.

The last time i was told not to burn bridges, I replied that they just seem to burst into flame after I walk over them. Which was true, and as long as you're true to yourself you can't go wrong. If you must torch a bridge, it's most likely so the enemy can't use it to mount an attack later. Strategy!
 
#7
The English language is quite clear and thus there is no definition necessary for what constitutes a wave (at least it is clear in language is the ISAF decide not to restrict their interpretation of the word).


Just for example, look on Dictionary.com and you will find a definition of wave a fluttering sign or signal made with the hand, a flag, etc. Everybody knows that, should you see somebody you raise one hand in the air and wave it at them. This is called waving or "a wave". Thus, if you can keep one hand free enough to wave at somebody (e.g. another competitor or a judge) you can then pump once. If you need to pump again you must first give them a wave (attract their attention, say hello or whatever motive - its the wave that's important.


English language rules and there are books with definitions called dictionaries. If the ISAF do not define what they mean then the standard language definitions must apply - and most people have a dictionary.


Ian
 
#8
My coaches had always pushed kinetics as the way to sail a Laser. I havent really sailed many national regattas in a long time but have never been penalized for this. I guess until I do I wont really care...
 
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OliLaser

Guest
Thread starter #9
Just for example, look on Dictionary.com and you will find a definition of wave a fluttering sign or signal made with the hand, a flag, etc. Everybody knows that, should you see somebody you raise one hand in the air and wave it at them. This is called waving or "a wave". Thus, if you can keep one hand free enough to wave at somebody (e.g. another competitor or a judge) you can then pump once. If you need to pump again you must first give them a wave (attract their attention, say hello or whatever motive - its the wave that's important.

haha good idea
 
#10
Here's another one for Ross to add to his list of rule changes....

Do what the 470 class do, just make it a class rule that rule 42 shall not apply! Bring back the athletes! yay!
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#11
I want it to be like the Finn's when the wind reaches X windspeed and above, the RC can wave rule 42
 
#17
Now I am confused.

If they drop it in the water and then the wind dies - how do they fish it back out? Must have some sort of retrieval system on it?

And if in fishing it out, they create some waves, am I allowed to pump.

As George C used to say "SERENITY NOW!!!"

LOL;-)
 
#18
Just an FYI, I believe CORK still draws 350, and the Laser Masters Worlds pre-registration is closed, because they hit the 350 limit 3 months before the event.

Al
 
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