Rubber grommets needed!

KangaKonners

New Member
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I'm doing up my uncle's (yes uncle's!) 1974 laser. All going very well. There are some rubber grommets (pictured above) used to attach the rudder assembly to the back of the hull. They're all either squashed, have lost their nut or have been completely obliterated on removal. I'm really struggling to get any more due to the age of the boat but I was wondering if any of you guys could help me get my hands on a few new ones?! Thanks for any help in advance!
 
Wow. Those fittings haven't been attached like that since the switch to plastic gudgeons in 1976 or so. You're not likely to find those parts anymore. Or is that something your uncle came up with?

Do you know what there is on the inside of the transom?
 
I have no idea what is inside the hull as I'm to scared but as far as I know, the grommets just slide into empty space and hold themachine screws very tightly.
 
I've never seen rubber grommets like that used, although my never having seen them doesn't mean too much in itself. My very old Laser (#555) doesn't have those, but does use the stainless steel gudgeons. The screw heads on mine are pan head like the ones on your upper gudgeon. The screws on mine are like the other screws on a Laser - they thread into the glass and backing wood.

I suspect that your rubber grommets are the result of a repair necessitated by the lower gudgeon being ripped off the boat, with the resulting damage to the screw holes preventing the original screws from holding. Note that the machine screws have countersunk heads. I doubt that would be original.

You may not want to do this, but you could put an inspection port in the aft deck. That would allow you to re-build the attachment area for the original type of screw. Inspection ports are useful in general and not hard at all to install.

I have seen grommets like those in hardware stores here in the US.
 
I've got a '73 Laser with the steel gudgeons also. In the original build, they are screwed straight into the transom - no rubber grommets. I'd go along with Rob's guess that the grommets are the result of an earlier failure and repair attempt.

You could try filling those holes with epoxy, let it harden, re-drill the holes, and then screw the gudgeon back on.

I'd suggest you consider putting an inspection hole in your rear deck to get access to the inside, and thru-bolt the gudgeon, with a big SS fender washer on the inside. The suggestion originally comes from a thread here about old Lasers. The piece of plywood inside the hull that backs up the gudgeon screws is prone to rot / go soft which of course contributes to the first failure, but if the boat's been in + out of water with those holes not watertight, it's all the more likely to be well rotted by now. You *might* be able to secure the gudgeon + get the screws + holes watertight by filling + re-drilling. But if you sail in much more than light wind the rudder sustains a lot of force, and thru-bolting them makes another failure much less likely, as well as increasing the odds of getting + keeping those holes watertight. But some people really don't like inspection ports, so it's obviously your call.

BTW, in case you're not already aware, the mast step on these older boats is very prone to failure. Frequently it's the lower end of the mast tube that separates from the inside of the bottom of the hull. Then as the mast falls over, it tears up the deck a lot, making the repair a WHOLE LOT of work. Happened to my boat a couple years ago + I did a whole bunch of work to fix it. In contrast, it's a fairly simple thing to put a port in the foredeck and simply reinforce that joint before it fails + tears up the deck. I wish I'd have known about it before mine failed ... I'm certainly not aiming to scare you or put you off in any way, just passing it along FWIW, hoping it's helpful to know about up front.

Good luck + have fun.
 
I agree, the rubber grommets were probably an earlier repair job. Could he potentially do something with a toggle bolt? It will still require refilling the holes, but maybe negate the need for an inspection port.
 
Those rubber pieces with threaded inserts are a common method for mounting trolling motors on bass boats.

I expect that was the source.
 
... toggle bolt? ...

Hmmm interesting idea, didn't occur to me. Without much thought to it, 2 considerations come to mind-

- how to get the gudgeon-transom joint strong enuf that the gudgeon doesn't move back + forth under the considerable side-to-side forces on the rudder (+ gudgeon) in bigger wind + waves. The holes need to be big enuf for the toggle to go thru, which I think means it (the hole that is) ends up being bigger than the bolt diameter when it's tightened down.

- how to get+keep the holes watertight after you get the toggles thru. Maybe a real strong sealant like 5200? between the gudgeon + the transom, and also between the underside of the head of the bolt and the outside face of the gudgeon --- would help with both things.

I've seen a lot of new + clever hardware available recently, designed to attach heavy things blind to drywall / wallboard. Maybe something there can do it. Tho on the wall the load is static- pretty much once + done; vs on the transom it's dynamic- on + off, back + forth. (Probably want to stay with stainless steel.)
 
Would probably need some sort of donut spacer to fill the gap between the screw and the extra-large hole for the toggle bolt.
 
Thanks for all the help guys! I think it must have been a previous owner that fixed it with rubber grommets but it did a hell of a great job because it made it last more than forty years sailing in rough and harsh waters.
I've got a fibreglass kit if that could help making a new thread for the original type of screw?
 
Something I saw done several years ago which may be applicable here.

Clear out the holes and material around them to make a slot. Probably not one big slot, but one on the left and one on the right.

For backing, you need something about the size of a playing card. Use several layers of fiberglass tape and resign to create a chunk of fiberglass about this size. After it has cured, you can insert it through the slot and adhere it to the inside of the hull with more resin. You may have to get creative to hold it in place while the resin cures.

You've now got a good solid backing. Use fiberglass mat with random weave to fill the slot itself. Sand it down and get everything nice and flush. You now have a solid area of fiberglass to drill new mounting holes.
 
... I've got a fibreglass kit if that could help making a new thread for the original type of screw? ...

If you're thinking to re-use the screws in your original picture - honestly IMO, I would not cuz they're fine-thread machine screws designed to hold in a metal nut or something similar-- metal being much harder + stronger, and less prone to tearing out, than fiberglass. If you're screwing / anchoring into fiberglass I'd use a coarse-thread wood screw-- the bigger threads = bigger "bite" which holds LOTS better in wood + fiberglass, than a fine thread.
 
What cskudder said.

In short:
1) Install inspection port on aft deck
2) Fill old holes with epoxy
3) Drill new holes through the cured epoxy
4) Bolt the fitting in place.
 
You got it cheers guys
How did your repair work out? I have a 1974 Laser, with the same gudgeons. The screws need to be replaced and the gudgeon reattached (it got partially pulled off when I hit a sand bar) What method did you use? Any suggestions for me? My laser appears to be in rougher condition than yours :)
 
FWIW, my own 2 cents (from working on my old '73 boat) :
Drill out the holes, fill 'em with something like 3M 5200 or 4200, and thru-bolt them with as big a bolt as will fit thru the hole in the gudgeon. And with a great big fender washer on the inside - like 1" / 25mm diameter. You'll have to put an inspection hole / port in the aft deck to get access to the inside, if there's not one there already.

If I remember correctly, there's a piece of plywood glassed into the transom, into which these screws penetrate, and which provides the bite and the hold. On a boat of this age, these backing boards are often wet, rotten, and / or soft.

After a bottom hit which partially tore out the screws, I'd just go straight to thru bolting. The gudgeon attachment is one of those joints which carries a high load in any kind of wind, and which, if it lets go, really ruins the rest of your sailing day ... limited steerage, and possibly taking on water at some lesser or greater rate.

There used to be a sticky thread on here about buying or restoring an old Laser. One of the recommendations was to thru-bolt all the high-load points on the boat, regardless of whether there was any observed problem or not. The gudgeons were on the list, along with the hiking strap attach points (fore + aft), the mainsheet block, and the turning blocks at the foot of the mast.

Over to others now.

I think old Lasers are one of the best deals on the water - more fun, for less money and less maintenance time, than almost anything else going. Good luck + have fun with it.
 

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