Roll Tacking and My Legs

Gerard

New Member
This might sound like a funny title, but I do have problems with my legs when sailing, especially when roll tacking both in light and medium air (hiking conditions). I am 6',6" and my legs get in my way frequently. Of course, I use my feet to push the boat away from me when tacking, but when I try to get to the other side (upper / windward side) I have trouble to get on my feet again, and when I need to hike out to flatten the boat I have troubles getting my feet on the right side of the hiking strap.
Hence my questions: what do you do with your legs / feet when tacking? where do you place your feet before and after the tack? When do you place your feet or foot on the other side of the strap in hiking conditions? and do you use different techniques for light and medium air?
I guess it will ultimately be a matter of a lot of practice and developing your own technique, but I am interested what other people do.

Gerard
 
Let's pretend you are sailing nicely along on starboard tack. As soon as you are about to tack, take your aft most (in this case your left) foot out of the hiking strap. You will then take that foot and put it on top of the hiking strap. Now is when you make your move. Roll it hard, push tiller away, as soon as the boom goes over your head grab the hiking strap with your right hand (with mainsheet also in that hand) and throw yourself to the other side. As you are going to the new side take that left foot and tuck it under that strap. This way, as soon as you are on the new side you already have a foot under the strap and can hike untill you get your other foot under the strap as well.
 
As soon as you are about to tack, take your aft most (in this case your left) foot out of the hiking strap. You will then take that foot and put it on top of the hiking strap.

Took the words out of my mouth.. couldnt have said it better... if your smaller one of the best things iv learned is jump to the bottom but since im smaller on a radial i cant role it enough so you stand up a little and onthe way up pull back on the windward side of the boat. this heels it over farther and get the other foot under the strap and bam. also big part is not to hold the boat over for long you want to jump to the bottom to role it not like sit down there... i see ALOT of people do that and it is slow.

hope it helps. good luck
 
wow i just realized i tug on the windward rail of my radial to heel it over more to. its probably because of the taller rig but who has noticed that it is easier to roll tack a laser than a radial.
 
i havnt sailed on a full much but might be true. just hit the leeward side of the boat when the main comes across and stand up like your going up but grab the rail and leen back and just jump down and flatten like normal. thats one of the biggest problems i have on a laser because im to small and role tacks are a big deal in low winds.
 
our coach (who is the Australian olympic coach) told us not to place the aft leg over the hiking strap because it limits your manouverability. i used to do it but not ive been shown how to roll tack with both legs under the straps its much easier and faster.

My procedure: (this is for 7-8 knots of wind, flat water). im 6'0 and about 170lb in a standard rig

1. have the boat dead flat
2. steer into the tack with the tiller at about halfway between fully turned and straight and adjust your weight as to lean the boat to windward as you approach head to wind (without dipping your arse in the water) ease 15-20cm (6-9 inches) of mainsheet
3. when the sail begins to fill on the new tack, the boat should heel considerably, so grab the hiking strap with your mainsheet hand and use both feet against the cockpit wall/floor to jump to the new side
4. hike the boat flat (but only in one movement or its breaking rule 42)
5. trim mainsheet back on

ive found my technique to work better than the foot over strap technique but it all depends on what is comfortable
 
Best way to is experiment on the water and see which style is best suited to your weigth and height. Remember if your not capsizing while practicising roll tacks and roll gybes then your not training hard enough
 
i agree with murphs but most people cant do that all really fast. thats why people say to have the unused foot ontop of the strap so its ready to hike. i do the same thing on 420's. my coach agrees with that and he used to be an olympic coach too. i find it hard to get my foot under the strap when i jump to windward to flatten.
 
Thank you, these suggestions are helpful, and I will experiment with the different suggestions.

Murphs, you write:

Murphs said:
3. when the sail begins to fill on the new tack, the boat should heel considerably, so grab the hiking strap with your mainsheet hand and use both feet against the cockpit wall/floor to jump to the new side
4. hike the boat flat (but only in one movement or its breaking rule 42)

I wonder how you move from the cockpit wall to a hiking position: do you turn around and get one foot under the strap, by stepping over it? Or do you really jump over the strap? Or do I miss something?
I think the suggestion of MacWas (and others) might work better for me.

Thank you again,

Gerard
 
I am 6'4". My main problem is getting the boom caught on the back of my lifejacket and therefore getting trapped on the lee side. One thing that seems to help is sliding well back in the cockpit prior to tacking, and then rolling my body forward thru the tack, almost kissing the ratchet block, keeping very low. I need to be back far enough to roll forward and get my head past the mainsheet (failure to do so being another good way to get trapped).

The other thing to realize is that, being tall you are likely heavier than the average Laser sailor. You don't need to use the initial hike to do all of the rolling. Use a little hike to initiate the roll, then duck under the boom and either just sit there on the lee side for a second, or duck under the boom and stand up with your body close to the boom and your feet on the lee side of the cockpit (having a foot right above the hand rail works really well - push with that foot and the boat will roll nicely). When you are ready to level off, *gently* move to the windward side. It seems like a slow, gentle motion provides better speed than a violent motion.

David
 
i actually literally jump through and put both feet under the strap on the new tack at the same time
 
sailordude said:
if your smaller one of the best things iv learned is jump to the bottom

Can someone explain what "jump to the bottom" means? I"ve heard it a couple of times and don't really know what people are talking about.
 
ok right when the boom comes across you want to jump to the leeward side of the boat to make it role. but the idea of a role tack is to make it really smooth and fast so dont make any uneeded movements and stuff. the reason you want to jump down there is to role it fast and then go to the high side and flat is because then your not sitting down there and waiting for the boat to heel up. most people just sit down there and thats really slow. hope it helps if you have any more questions just say.
 
sailordude said:
ok right when the boom comes across you want to jump to the leeward side of the boat to make it role. but the idea of a role tack is to make it really smooth and fast so dont make any uneeded movements and stuff.

"jumping down" does not sound very smooth... I associate jumping with feet, and I assume that you are not literally jumping out of the cockpit to the leeward side? At least, I have never seen anything like that. Most laser-sailors push their whole body to the leeward side, while their feet push the boat (and their upper body) away. Do you consider this "jumping down" when you use a lot of force?
 
sailordude said:
ok right when the boom comes across you want to jump to the leeward side of the boat to make it role. but the idea of a role tack is to make it really smooth and fast so dont make any uneeded movements and stuff. the reason you want to jump down there is to role it fast and then go to the high side and flat is because then your not sitting down there and waiting for the boat to heel up. most people just sit down there and thats really slow. hope it helps if you have any more questions just say.

Thanks. "Leeward" and "Windward" are always confusing to me when people are talking about tacks because without a picture it's never clear whether they are talking about jumping to the "old leeward" (the side that was leeward before the tack) to roll the boat up out of the tack and flatten it, or "new leeward" (the side that is going to be leeward after the tack), and jumping there to roll the boat harder...

And if it's "new leeward" how do you jump there? Aren't you already pretty much sitting there? Most people I see just hike out hard and suddently to roll the boat onto them, and then jump to the high side once the boom comes across and the sail starts to fill.
 
ya i hear you. well i when i say jumping i mean through your wieght to the NEW leeward side not just sitting there and waiting untill the boat heels up naturaly. you want to do it smoothly and fast. and your right when you tack you are on the leeward side but your just sitting there. you want to get your wieght out there so you can heel it up fast.
 
sailordude said:
well i when i say jumping i mean through your wieght to the NEW leeward side not just sitting there and waiting untill the boat heels up naturaly. you want to do it smoothly and fast. and your right when you tack you are on the leeward side but your just sitting there. you want to get your wieght out there so you can heel it up fast.

Got it. Yep, that's what I try to do. Sometimes it even works!
 
haha ya role tacking is huge. the best thing you can do is go out with 2 lasers and just get the leeward boat to try to pass the windward boat and just have a tacking dual for as long as you can hold up! or tack on the wistle or some. when you get it perfect youl see! i just cant get the tiller extension under my arm pit! its to long and im to short to get it under there so i have to go over my head which is anoying. i think they say your suposed to keep your wieght forward in a tack to keep the bow down so maybe lean forward and sneek it uner there? lol good luck
 
gavin,

when i read your method, it looks to me that you roll the boat after passing through head to wind. am i right?

i think all the terminology and meanings are getting mixed up a bit
 
head to wind? ok but right when the boom or sail comes across you role it over a little and flatten. is it that hard?! iv done it like a thousand times it might be comfusing to read or some.
 
the bit that confuses me is when you roll the boat.

by head to wind i mean bow into the wind, boom on centreline, heading straight upwind
 
sailordude said:
that dude tacks wierd he goes like backwords. i didnt think that was fast!

He's in a Europe, that's the reason he's tacking backwards in the videos...
 
sailordude said:
that dude tacks wierd he goes like backwords. i didnt think that was fast!

Yeah, in the video the technique is for Europe's, but the subtle things are still important (ie: sheeting, rudder angle).

The article is the meat for Laser sailors. I thought the comparison of tacking and ice skating was excellent. I gotta practice more.
 
sailordude said:
ok right when the boom comes across you want to jump to the leeward side of the boat to make it role. but the idea of a role tack is to make it really smooth and fast so dont make any uneeded movements and stuff. the reason you want to jump down there is to role it fast and then go to the high side and flat is because then your not sitting down there and waiting for the boat to heel up. most people just sit down there and thats really slow. hope it helps if you have any more questions just say.


That doesn't make sense...All you have to do is sit on your windward side all the way through, then roll, then switch sides.

I was taught to let the boat heel to leeward to initiate the turn and at the same time give the main a big pump, and keep the boat slightly healed until the main completely backwinds. I then i give a short, quick but strong jolt to initiate the roll, fully extending with the hiking strap and looking at the top of the mast, then i jump in, ease the sheet, grab the new windward rail, and literally jump [the boat at this point has continued to roll and is now at or past 45 degrees] up so that my butt lands outside the rail and my feet land inside the hiking strap [i usually keep my hiking strap completely tight, no bungee cord] and i can flat-out hike until the boat is flat again, at which point another big pump is in order to sheet in what you eased. The key to a roll-tack is to make sure your movements are quick and sharp, not long, jerky or gradual. You want to have the boat reacting to you. I start the roll, and then when i start to hike it flat, the boat is still rolling over. With this method, i've been able to make the boat come out of the tack almost twice as fast as it went into it on a light day.
 
computeroman2 said:
I was taught to let the boat heel to leeward to initiate the turn and at the same time give the main a big pump, . . ., at which point another big pump is in order to sheet in what you eased. . . .. With this method, i've been able to make the boat come out of the tack almost twice as fast as it went into it on a light day.

Is more than one pump legal? I know it's not legal to come out of the tack faster than when you went in. ;)

Merrily
 
computeroman2 said:
[... description deleted...] With this method, i've been able to make the boat come out of the tack almost twice as fast as it went into it on a light day.

Description sounds good, but if you gain that much speed in a tack, you subject yourself to a DSQ under Rule 42.
 
I can get that much speed when i'm fooling around in our yacht club's thrusday nights and there isn't much wind...In anything over 5 kts. i can't get it going as fast. also, it's almost impossible to regulate that part of rule 42, unless someone's standing on the committee boat with a radar gun and i highly dout that [not that i'd try to break the rule]. as for pumping, the pump at the beggining of the tack is the 1 pump, then at the end of the tack i rapidly pull back in what i eased during the tack.
 
It's not hard at all to tell when someone comes out a tack faster then they went in (or faster then the boats around them) in light air. Finding competitors to enforce is the hard part. I find it all depends on who you are sailing against/where you are sailing. Some fleets clamp down on it and some don't...
 

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