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Replacement for stock swivel cam cleat

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
While that is certainly better than what you have, the best setup is something as shown in the picture. The block in the center of the deck only turns when you pull the sheet in, so the sheave provides friction when you are not pulling in, which lessens the load on your hand. The cleats on the side deck make it much easier to cleat and uncleat - when you are heeling when using the item from Intensity, it can be hard to uncleat, resulting in a capsize.

This block is a good price and perfect for Sunfish Nautos 57mm Manual Ratchet Block (intensitysails.com) and two of these and you are set Ronstan T Cam Cleat- Great for Main Sheet on Laser® (intensitysails.com) The block mounts to an eyestrap, so you probably will need to drill two holes for it. This doohickey may help cover the extra holes Harken Stand Up Boot (intensitysails.com) but it is definitely optional.
 

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Sailflow

Active Member
Go with a ratchet. You want to hold the sheet all the time. In your video with the big director change puff it it had been created you would have had trouble.
 

Guybrush3pwood

Active Member
Go with a rachet. You want to hold the sheet all the time. In your video with the big director change puff it it had been created you would have had trouble.
I’ll mostly hold the sheet, it would just be nice to have the option in case I need a free hand for a few moments. It’s a risk, but if I need to grab something (like a bottle of water) I don’t want to have to fumble with it while holding the sheet.
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
Interesting. I wonder what the point is of having clam cleats to the left and the right. Why not just one below?
For accessibility. If you are hiking out and need to cleat for some reason, it isn’t possible if it’s in the center. Center is less expensive and will work - just not as flexible to use.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
I’ll mostly hold the sheet, it would just be nice to have the option in case I need a free hand for a few moments. It’s a risk, but if I need to grab something (like a bottle of water) I don’t want to have to fumble with it while holding the sheet.
When you want a drink or a bite, take a rest etc., you just let go of the sheet.
 

Guybrush3pwood

Active Member
For accessibility. If you are hiking out and need to cleat for some reason, it isn’t possible if it’s in the center. Center is less expensive and will work - just not as flexible to use.
Makes sense!

Maybe I'll just start with the ratchet block and see how that goes. If I decide later I can add the cleats.

When you want a drink or a bite, take a rest etc., you just let go of the sheet.
Won't the sail blow out and slow/stop the boat?
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
You can use the boot without the spring or spring without the boot. Given the low price I’d just buy both and see which you prefer - although I don’t think there is much difference.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Go with a ratchet. You want to hold the sheet all the time. In your video with the big director change puff it it had been created you would have had trouble.
Definitely adds to enjoyment. There are at least two sizes, and I may have installed the larger one from my ditty bag of collected marine hardware. (Hardware freak, here ;) )

I used to use my teeth, but my dentist told me not to stress my teeth, even to open a plastic bag! (It's an aging thing). :(
 

Guybrush3pwood

Active Member
Thanks for all the info! Ordered all the parts this morning so I think I’m good to go! Just need to see if I can find a stainless backing plate. If not I’ll settle for some washers.
 
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Guybrush3pwood

Active Member
Probably a non-issue but just want to make sure. I ordered the Harken 2135 but they sent me this instead. Guessing it’ll work just fine as well?

F0A68709-5690-42FB-9952-55E1F24B85B2.jpeg10E60A62-6DA0-4413-8808-6688A3243ADD.jpeg
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Guessing it’ll work just fine as well?
It won't... it's better than the Harken :D It has the additional automatic function, meaning that by flicking the switch (read the instructions) it'll roll free whenever the load is light, and still "bite" when you need. I prefer that on all ratchet blocks on all boats.

It also has, allegedly, twice the holding power of the Harken.

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Guybrush3pwood

Active Member
I don't really plan on using the auto mode, so as long as I don't use that, I shouldn't have to worry about it being tough on the sheet, right?

Debating whether I should install it or try to exchange it for the one I ordered. I'm guessing I should probably just install it and call it a day.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Looks good. The auto mode is actually a tiny bit less tough on the sheet, as it rolls both ways like a non-ratchet block when the load isn't heavy enough. The hold comes from the shape of the sheave, and doesn't change with the mode.

Basically, a 20:1 should wear the line twice as much as a 10:1, but I don't think these are directly comparable because of the different sheave designs. As neither Ronstan nor Harken has disclosed their testing methods (as far as I know), we don't even know how they arrived at those numbers.

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tag

my2fish
here is really cool video by Harken to visually demonstrate how their ratchet blocks work to reduce the load that your hands see for holding lines that are trimmed often (so your mainsheet on a Sunfish, and spinnakers or jibs & other lines on other sailboats).
they use a load cell (or load indicator) on the line going to his hand to show the load reduction that occurs with a ratchet block. a key note: the load required to trim (or pull your sail in) is the same as without the ratchet system, but the load required to ease or hold the line is reduced (quite a bit) due to the ratchet block mechanism (a combination of the “stopped” sheave and the grooves that increase friction).



I’m sure the Ronstan block you received is a similar mechanism, but as Lali mentioned it has a higher 20:1 ratio at the sheave so should “grip” the line even more.
 

Guybrush3pwood

Active Member
So I rigged the boat to try it out and I’m a wee bit concerned about the grip it has when the sheet goes back out. I’m guessing it’s different when the wind does it vs me just pushing on the spar, just hoping it doesn’t catch and cause a capsize.

I’m sure it’s functionality will all become clear once I get it out in the field.
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
So I rigged the boat to try it out and I’m a wee bit concerned about the grip it has when the sheet goes back out. I’m guessing it’s different when the wind does it vs me just pushing on the spar, just hoping it doesn’t catch and cause a capsize.

I’m sure it’s functionality will all become clear once I get it out in the field.
It definitely will not grip enough to cause a capsize. You’ll see that it is fine when you use it.
 
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LaLi

Well-Known Member
here is really cool video by Harken
That makes the principle clear, but the numbers are baffling. The load is "only" about 4.5 times higher when pulling the line vs. releasing it. From where do they get the "up to 15:1" that is in their catalogue? How does the math really work? :confused:

I’m a wee bit concerned about the grip it has when the sheet goes back out. ... just hoping it doesn’t catch and cause a capsize.
If the wind is strong enough to capsize the boat, it should be more than strong enough to pull the sheet through any ratchet block. But if you want to be absolutely safe, use the automatic mode :D

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shorefun

Active Member
I have the rachet block on my fish and my son has the cleat.

The cleat is ok for being lazy, but seeing the kids keep cleating the line and then getting into troubles. We have all sorts of mainsheet rigs in our yacht club. When the kids leave it cleated or accidentally cleat at the doc you end up with some interesting issues and a panic to on cleat.

So I found the the block to be easy, there are a few times when I wish I had a cleat. I found I just pull up and wrap the line more around the block and it holds well. I have long legs so I just rest my hand on my knee or down wind on top the dagger board.
 
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