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removing side deck cleats

lilcumpi

Member
Hey the laser im using currently is quite old and has the big side deck cleats on it..i want to take them off but im not sure about filling the holes afterwards(because ive seen some lasers without cleats) or whether it is best to buy 2 new smaller ones
 

49208

Tentmaker
If you are undecided, you can just remove the cleats and put the screws back in (with silicone or caulk ) You may find on short course racing you don't want cleats, but long (over 60 mins) windy races you want the small cleats..
 

Mattcm

Member
cleatsare great get rid of the ratchet block and use the cleats ratchets are crap cleats are great
If you're thinking this you mustn't have a great ratchet, anyway most people have cleats but hardly use them as you need to be constantly adjusting the main going upwind in breeze.
 

Matt B

Member
new harken ratchet block but cleats are still better than using the ratchet but to be honest i usually just keep the sheet in my hand because even in heavey wind with a full rig you can still keep hold of the sheet in one hand and the deck cleats are good if you are sailing long distance because you can always alter with a little bit of tiller or take it out of the cleat and re position it from what was put in the last post that sounds to me like you pinch to the mark.
 

jeffers

Active Member
I (and every other person who sails at my club) hate the cleats on the deck as do the coaches we occasioanlly have in.

If your body position is correct upwind they are a pain in the leg as you should be sat where they are located.

A decent ratchet block and decent rope (as some ropes do slip through the blocks) is key.

To answer the original question I filled the holes on mine with some resin mixed with micro balloons to make it the consistency of a thick paste. If you wanted a temporary fix just either put the screws back in or put some sealant in the holes then do a more permnent fix once you are happy you do not want them.
 

uid100

New Member
cleatsare great get rid of the ratchet block and use the cleats ratchets are crap cleats are great
I guess that clears up a lot.

I first learned to sail in a laser in 1977, in Jr High School, sailed on and off through high school, competitively in college, and coached laser sailing at several racing clinics and yacht club programs for many years after that, and recently returned to laser sailing after several years racing other boats. In all that time, I've never met anyone that sailed a laser without a ratchet block by choice, although, I do occasionally switch the ratchet off in light air downwind, so the rest of the fleet doesn't hear how much I'm trimming. Also, I've never met anyone that had mainsheet cleats on the edge of the cockpit that didn't remove them the first chance they got. Which can mean only one thing. Clearly everyone else is wrong, because as we now know, the cleats are great and the ratchets are crap. And don't worry, the bruises on the back of your calves will heal... probably.

On the other hand, if you chose to ignore this advice, or just want to follow what everyone else is doing, when we pulled the cleats off our older boat, we used a resin and micro-balloons paste also and applied it with a stick. It really isn't very much material and you could skip the filler and just mix up some resin with the same result.
 

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Matt B

Member
i sit with the cleat between my legs and moast people at our club have the cleats even on brand new boats
 

Sailorchick

Member
I have small deck cleats on my boat. I don't use them much but do really notice when I borrow a boat that doesn't have them! Mainly use them when making control line adjustments (mostly hold the main whilst doing this) or sailing in after a long days racing when I can't be asked to hold the main any longer.

However, if I could only have a ratchet block or cleats I'd choose the ratchet block. Playing the main in any breeze becomes so much harder if you don't have a ratchet!

A good ratchet block is an essential bit of kit wheras deck cleats are personal preference.
 

powergroove

Member
Ask yourself this...
"Am I a cleater"
Hello, Im Bob, and Im a cleater

Seek 12 step program if you are.

Step 1) Admit that we are weaker than our cleats
Step 2) Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity
Step 3) Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of a nice ratchet block
Step 4) Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves
Step 5) Admitted to ourselves and the Laser forum the exact nature of our wrongs
Step 6) We are entirely ready to remove all these cleats from our boat
Step 7) Humbly asked Performance Sailcraft to remove our shortcomings
Step 8) Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to give them our removed cleats
Step 9) Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
Step 10)- Continued to take personal inventory and when we want to cleat, admit it
Step 11 Sought through exercise and meditation to improve our arm power
Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other cleaters, and to practice these principles in our Laser
 

Matt B

Member
on friday night i purpusefully went out with my ratchet on in wind that was varying from non existant to strong with a full rig on and sailed for a mile ish with the ratchet on and then a mile ish again with the ratchet off and i have to admit that your fingers dont hurt as mutch after but it is a pain in the arse trying to not use the deck cleats when trying to get a load of vang on when the wind dissappears and then trying to get it off quikley when it comes back and as i have just read on here someone else has put the same thing that they are usefull when you are ajusting your controlls and as ive said before what is wrong with sitting arount the cleats rather than on them but then i had another idea although it would have to be ok'd by the board is to put the cleats on the flat piece either side of the daggerboard but in sutch a way that they dont obstruct anything else.
 

Mattcm

Member
on friday night i purpusefully went out with my ratchet on in wind that was varying from non existant to strong with a full rig on and sailed for a mile ish with the ratchet on and then a mile ish again with the ratchet off and i have to admit that your fingers dont hurt as mutch after but it is a pain in the arse trying to not use the deck cleats when trying to get a load of vang on when the wind dissappears and then trying to get it off quikley when it comes back and as i have just read on here someone else has put the same thing that they are usefull when you are ajusting your controlls and as ive said before what is wrong with sitting arount the cleats rather than on them but then i had another idea although it would have to be ok'd by the board is to put the cleats on the flat piece either side of the daggerboard but in sutch a way that they dont obstruct anything else.
I really don't like cleats, if you want to use them thats fine but I just pass the mainsheet back to my tiller hand and trim the vang, usually about every 20-30 seconds upwind.

The idea to mount them on either side of the daggerboard isn't bad but it would be illegal, and then you wouldn't be able to access the cleats from the side deck, where people who use them access them from
 

Capsized

Member
For those who want to cleat, why not get a mainsheet block with a built-in cam cleat?

You can have the sheet cleated when you want to adjust other controls, and don't have to worry about sitting on the cleats on the side deck.
 

Deimos

Member
on friday night i purpusefully went out with my ratchet on in wind that was varying from non existant to strong with a full rig on and sailed for a mile ish with the ratchet on and then a mile ish again with the ratchet off and i have to admit that your fingers dont hurt as mutch after but it is a pain in the arse trying to not use the deck cleats when trying to get a load of vang on when the wind dissappears and then trying to get it off quikley when it comes back and as i have just read on here someone else has put the same thing that they are usefull when you are ajusting your controlls and as ive said before what is wrong with sitting arount the cleats rather than on them but then i had another idea although it would have to be ok'd by the board is to put the cleats on the flat piece either side of the daggerboard but in sutch a way that they dont obstruct anything else.
It must be a familiarity issue. I have never had cleats on my Laser and have no problems with the mainsheet and adjusting control lines (none that relate holding the mainsheet - I have the usual "issues" less capable people have with leaning in as a gust hits, etc. but having never had cleats). I must have found ways to adjust everything whilst holding tiler and mainsheet and I've never even thought about what I do. Next time I will note what I hold where when adjusting control lines. Certainly last time out in a bit more of a blow I was adjusting control lines through the race and never stood/sat on the mainsheet and never used teeth or anything and never thought about it being a fiddle.

Each to their own, but if I got a Laser with the cleats now I would definitely take them off.

Ian
 

jeffers

Active Member
As others have said you can trap the mainsheet in your tiller hand. This works well even when it is blowing old boots and gives you a free hand to tweak the control lines.

It does take practice to steer and not trim the main though. Similarly as it takes practive to trim in after rounding a leeward mark whilst keeping your sterring constant.

I would never stand, sit or use my teeth, I know people who do and it makes me cringe every time becaus eit is unecessary.
 

Sailorchick

Member
As others have said you can trap the mainsheet in your tiller hand. This works well even when it is blowing old boots and gives you a free hand to tweak the control lines.

It does take practice to steer and not trim the main though. Similarly as it takes practive to trim in after rounding a leeward mark whilst keeping your sterring constant.

I would never stand, sit or use my teeth, I know people who do and it makes me cringe every time becaus eit is unecessary.
I know what you mean about using teeth etc making you cringe on mark roundings etc. Lasernut does that and I'm sure he's going to lose a tooth or two one day!
 

Matt B

Member
i know a guy who is about 40 ish and has false teeth because of that but i think he ripped his out in a moth though but its the same differance and ive seen a soloution that would please moast people saw it on a larger boat the cleat swivels around the pully block witch is really handy i know its not race legal but i think i minght give it a go at a club race some time take off the deck cleats and put on one of those swivel cleats and if it works put it to the board why not.
 

nedsbeds

New Member
i know a guy who is about 40 ish and has false teeth because of that but i think he ripped his out in a moth though but its the same differance and ive seen a soloution that would please moast people saw it on a larger boat the cleat swivels around the pully block witch is really handy i know its not race legal but i think i minght give it a go at a club race some time take off the deck cleats and put on one of those swivel cleats and if it works put it to the board why not.
I think a swivel cleat used to be a builder supplied option so I wouldn't just assume it's not legal. My laser certainly looks like it came with one although it was removed thankfully.

EDIT:
http://www.laserinternational.org/rules/classrules/parttwo/controlsystemsetc/mainsheet

The mainsheet block may be replaced by any type of single block with or without an internal or attached jamming device, and mounted in the position shown on the measurement diagram.
 

LASERNUT

Member
I put my mainsheet in my teeth to change hands after a tack or gybe.

It gives me a bit more chance to drop it if something goes really wrong and I never end up sitting on the tail (which I really hate!).

But Sailorchick has words with me about that. Don't know why. That's what false teeth were invented for ;)
 

Mattcm

Member
But Sailorchick has words with me about that. Don't know why. That's what false teeth were invented for ;)
Sheeting was what hands were invented for though. Listen to Sailorchick just tack and after a while pass your hand back to your tiller hand and get steering, gives you a chance to work the mainsheet during and after the tack
 
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