Refinishing rudder, tiller and daggerboard this weekend

m2736185

Member
I have seen a few post about these pieces being refinished and the ones from the boat I purchased are in rough shape. I purchased Total boat penetrating epoxy and Rustoleum marine coating spar varnish. My plan is to sand the parts down good possible clamp the tiller together with epoxy in the middle. The add a few coats of epoxy an da few coats of varnish. I am a little concerned about the cracks. Is there any other ideas to repair cracks?
 

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Fill the cracks with epoxy and micro-balloons. I've used it over the years
on oars where the ends have split. It's a rock solid stable fix.
 
You can thicken that epoxy you bought or use a thickened epoxy like Flexpoxy or THIXO. Inject it into the cracks.
 
Well since I already have the bottle Ill try using it with micro balloons. I was hoping to get it done this weekend, but micro balloons will proly be hard to find around these parts. So... after applying the micro-balloons epoxy....I can just start applying the coats to the rest of the wood without waiting for it to dry right?
 
You could but I would fill the cracks, then once dry sand again, then apply surface epoxy layer. Then sand and varnish.
 
I used a heat gun to remove the old varnish and epoxy. I had to order micro balloons couldn’t find it around here. I suppose I could also apply fiberglass around the cracks right?
 
A previous owner did a nice job of applying fiberglass cloth to one of my daggerboards. However, water got in somewhere, caused the wood to swell and popped the fiberglass at the seams. In other words, I don't think a crack repair with cloth or tape is going to last. :(
 
Hi there,

The daggerboard and rudder for my boat were in pretty rough shape when I first got the boat. There were cracks and splinters and the daggerboard was short by a couple of inches.

For the cracks, I wanted to, and I think it is important, to clean all of the dirt and rot out of them, so that the epoxy will adhere. I used my radial saw to do that, but I think a saber saw or a bandsaw would work. The advantage of the radial was that I did not have to cut all the way through the board. Be sure to cut a little past where the crack appears to end. You can then fill the kerfs with thickened epoxy, or as I did fit and epoxy scrap mahogany strips into the cracks and plane/sand them down. If you just use epoxy, I would tape the back with masking tape so that the epoxy will not run out.

If you search for daggerboard, green strip in this forum I posted a picture of my daggerboard. That picture will show you how I lengthened the board and replaced the leading and trailing edges which were splintered.

Hope that is helpful to you.
 
Well thanks for all the advice. I will post some pictures once its all done. So the epoxy I can do about 2 coats before it dries then sand it down with 220 and I can do the Varnish 3-4 coats? The directions on the varnish says I can do coats 2 hours apart without sanding.
 
Usually best to follow the directions on the product you are using. Some epoxy does not need sanding unless you wait several days and it is fully fully cured. One way to test those epoxies is the fingernail test, if the epoxy dents with the pressure of a fingernail, then you may not sand it, but instead put another coat on, aka a "hot coat." Also the product will tell you if it needs to be rinsed to remove amine blush.

If you bought TotalBoat from Jamestown Distributors, you can call their number 800-497-0010 / 401-253-3840 and talk to the Tech Team about your application. We talk to Dave a lot. The tech data for the products is online as well. They ship cups and sticks and gloves with their epoxy, a nice touch. We use them so much that we have become Ambassadors for the brand! TotalBoat products ship free and they also sell the other brands we use, Interlux, Pettit and some Rustoleum. We buy enough each year that we joined the VIP Club and all of our items ship free, with a small surcharge added if we buy hazmat.

And if you have other wood repairs you might consider THIXO or Pettit Flexpoxy, it is epoxy that is already thickened that comes in a 2 part caulk tube. I like it because it measures itself out, already thickened. You can squeeze out a small amount and mix it yourself or use a mixing tip and it does the mixing for you. It is expensive though, but worth the convenience in many of our applications. We just wrote an article about Flexpoxy for the digital magazine Small Boats Monthly.

Cheers
Kent and Audrey
 
Storm took out internet so typing on iPad which isn’t too accurate. S/b “green stripe.”
 
So my first attempt at epoxy did not go so well. Anyone ever had epoxy catch on fire? So i decided to work on my epoxy inside since its much warmer. I mixed the epoxy in a red plastic cup and filled in a few deep spots. I went downstairs to grab the tiller and when I returned the plastic cup had melted with smoke coming from the epoxy. Epoxy is everywhere including all over the bottom of the rudder. I suppose I will have to wait until its dry and sand it off and try again. On another note.. always wear gloves when working with epoxy. This stuff feels like stripper when it gets on the skin.
 
If you put a lot of epoxy in a small container it can melt cups. Better to spread it out in a bigger container and use a thicker cup. In warm temps a 98.6 degree hand can get the epoxy cooking off pretty quick, especially if Fast Hardener is used. Put the cup on a surface and hold the top edge when mixing vs cupping it in your hand. And I always put leftover epoxy outside when finished in case it gets warm, not uncommon to come back to melted cups.
 
Happened to me again in one of the larger mixing containers. Started heating up and shortly after the thing was boiling. So I finished the epoxy....It didn't turn out perfect, but I rather get the boat out than spend another day or 2 resanding and applying epoxy. I had 2 issues. One is when I turned the rudder/board over the coat the other side it developed "bumps" from the epoxy that attempted to drip off, but didn't quite make it off the wood. The other issue is the were some areas like the edges that didn't take epoxy well. In any case going to varnish it this weekend and hopefully get the boat out next weekend.
 

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I've been using the "slow-set" version of West Systems epoxy. (206) Now that I've read up on it, I see it's not recommended for "clear coating". :(

In the direct sun, even "slow-set" can get hot, so I keep the container of mixed epoxy on a cold brick I keep stored in the refrigerator. (Which helps—some).
:)

.
 
You need a digital scale to get the epoxy mixed correctly. The pumps used in the West System are crude at best. Excess heat is usually caused by too much hardener but ambient temperature also plays a role.

The #105 epoxy resin is mixed in a 5:1 ratio with the #205 and #206 hardeners, and a 3:1 ratio with the #207 hardener.
 
You need a digital scale to get the epoxy mixed correctly. The pumps used in the West System are crude at best. Excess heat is usually caused by too much hardener but ambient temperature
also plays a role. The #105 epoxy resin is mixed in a 5:1 ratio with the #205 and #206 hardeners, and a 3:1 ratio with the #207 hardener.
The pumps sorta worked the first time, then went downhill in a hurry. :confused: Save your money. While it hasn't happened to me, don't let one drop of hardener get into your container of #105 or, over time, you'll have a solid block of epoxy. :(
 
I’ve never had trouble with West pumps. I’ve found them to be reliable.

I did not mean they they don't keep pumping, I meant that you can't use them tomeasure out a accurate amount to provide the correct ratio. They do work to getyou in the ball-park so to speak but using a digital scale will save you wasted material and money in the long run.
If you remember your chemistry class any deviation from mixing the exact ratio of chemicals does nothing to help the reaction and just wastes expensive chemicals.
 
They do work to get
you in the ball-park so to speak but using a digital scale will save you wasted material
and money in the long run.
If you remember your chemistry class any deviation from mixing the exact ratio of chemicals does nothing
to help the reaction and just wastes expensive chemicals.

HaHa, Webfoot1, excellent observations!!! {Think Sherlock Holmes here...} Nothing worse than realizing that your resin pot is kaput while it's still halfway full and the current step in your project is incomplete, LOL. :confused:

As for chemistry class, I must admit that I don't remember much of it... not only due to age-related CRS, but also because I was stoned 90% of the time, while my friends & I concentrated upon explosives, not resin formulas. :eek:

Say, is that the original James Bond (Sean Connery) in your avatar? Or is it someone else? Kinda hard to tell on this computer, maybe I should go back and watch some early Bond flicks to get a clue... doesn't look like Ursula's hair color, but the body measurements are about right, LOL. :cool:

MIGHT BE SOME OTHER SHOW, I KNOW THERE WERE A FEW WHICH FEATURED BOATS, DIVING, AND SKIMPILY-CLAD BATHING BEAUTIES... :)
 
1965 James Bond Thunder Ball. Movie had it all, underwater diving fights, skimpy clad women, hydrofoils for the bad guys and a swimming pool full of Sharks, not Sea Bass with lasers strapped to them. I miss SPECTRE the Red Menace, things have not been the same in movies and novels since the Berlin Wall fell.
 
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1965 James Bond Thunder Ball. Movie had it all, underwater diving fights, skimpy
clad women, hydrofoils for the bad guys and a swimming pool full of Sharks, not
Sea Bass with lasers strapped to them. I miss SPECTRE the Red Menace, things have
not been the same in movies and novels since the Berlin Wall fell.

All part of the globalist plot, LOL... gotta keep today's youth brainwashed with sociopolitical themes. I too miss the days when movies & shows were made solely for entertainment, the political/slash/globalist bankster propaganda produced today doesn't cut it. :confused:
 
just trace your old rudder on a piece of oak and cut it out and sand where necessary, its even cheaper than buying the epoxy. i have done this for both my sunfish, centerboard and rudder then poly when finished sanding. good luck!
 
If you remember your chemistry class any deviation from mixing the exact ratio of chemicals does nothing
to help the reaction and just wastes expensive chemicals.
A common mistake of those using epoxies. It's a molecular matchup and any excess of either is just waste. This thought I'm believing, comes from adding extra MEK to polyester resins...which WILL make it "kick" faster.
 
Also makes a poor clear coat as you can't get the epoxy off easily to refinish a wood part.

Remember the bumper-sticker your chemistry teacher had on his car. . .

'A Mole is a chemist's best friend!'
 
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Actually, I believe West does have a UV resistant clear coat. I've used the regular with decent success, keeping it out of the sun for prolonged periods. IOW, my mahogany rudder is glassed and coated with West.
But I agree, removing West to refinish a wood part, borderlines on futile. The epoxy also has a tendency, as you know, to absorb into the wood... why it's great adhesive as well.
 
Epoxy makes a good wood filler/sealer if you put it on and then immediately
scrape as much off as you can with a card.

Spar Varnish is about continual upkeep but I kind of like it.
 
Oh, boy...
Firstly, "I don't think a crack repair with cloth or tape is going to last." It won't if you use polyester, you need to use epoxy. In my experience WEST is the most reliable and controllable, and easily obtainable -- yes you need the pumps.
For structural repairs epoxy/cloth is often needed, but don't make things fatter, reduce the thickness of the wood before glassing.
Yes, epoxy can overheat, so can polyester if you add to much hardener. Epoxy works differently than Poly, you have to get the proportions right, adding more catalyst to epoxy just makes it go sideways.
Purchase the correct "speed" for you application, WEST makes really slow, slow, fast, really fast, epoxies. The fast epoxies will light up pretty easily on a hot day. Certain fillers, like Microlight, make it kick faster.
For a structural filler repairs use Cabosil (can be under different names, it's fumed silica), it's a bitch to sand. For ease of sanding use Microlight.
Threaded rods kinda work, buy since they're on centerline they have much less resistance to bending than glass fiber cloth in epoxy on both sides. Resistance to bending is a crucial thing for a rudders on an unbalanced rig like a Sunfish.
 

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