Ray Greene Rascal 14; information request

Rascal 14

New Member
Recently, my parents have informed me they have a sailboat on their property nice and distant from where I live. From what I've been able to gather its a Ray Greene Rascal. Not being close enough to personally inspect the boat I only have pictures to go on.
Here are a bow and hull photo:Ray Green Rascal 14 Bow.JPGRay Greene Rascal hull.JPG

I say now, I haven't been around sailboats since I was 6 and want to bring it back into my life, specifically to introduce to my daughter at some point. I know very little terminology related to sailing and am trying to learn, so if I refer to something incorrectly, please forgive me and let me know the proper terminology. My request for assistance centers around the fact that the boat appears to need some "wonderful" reconstruction work on the board box. You can see the board box I'm referring to in the next photo with some rotten wood and banged up fiberglass:Ray Greene Rascal Board box.JPG

The boat has sat outside in dry air for an extensive period of time and appears that it'll take a lot of work just to get the boat to where I live and I'm trying to figure out, after its gotten here, how much work could potentially be needed to repair what's gotten rotten; wood or fiberglass. From initial conversation with the parents most everything appears cosmetic and fairly (used loosely) basic except for repairing the keelboard itself and the board box. What I'm trying to make sure of is that I don't get in over my head in repairing this particular boat cost wise. So in order to do that I'm attempting to do a couple of things. A) track down as much information on these boats as possible, most specifically how the board box is built, but any information would be fantastic. B) come up with some cost estimates with a factor of unexpected expenses added after a potential list has been formed. Really all the information that I have found thus far is here: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5918

So at this point I don't have much to go on not even a production number to help look up particulars of the boat, but then again I don't know where to look for the production number on the hull.

So if anyone has insights into where to track down information on Ray Greene's Rascal, insights on its constructions, or general information regarding their experiences restoring a day-sailor, thoughts are appreciated.
 

Steve Namenye

New Member
There's not a ton of info. out there. I bought an old one last fall. It didn't need any hull work. But I think the boom and sails aren't original so the sail can't be hauled to the top of the mast, .

Got to really sail it for a week a few weeks ago and it is a nice stable boat and worth the work if your not alergic like I'm alergic to boat improvement projects. Anything is fixable with the right amount of time and money. Personally I wouldn't tackle what your looking at unless it has sentimental value or you just like old boats. There's something to be said for a newer boat that has all the right parts/pieces and those parts/pieces are readily available. Check Craigslist in your area. Just my 2 cents worth.

I'm keeping mine and will continue to sail it to make sure it's a good empty nest hobby for my first mate and me. But, I may upgrade to something newer sometime, too.

As for the center board bunk, you might also look for info. on the 16 ft. Rebel. Ray Greene also built these and the design is similar to the Rascal and has endured. I believe Ray Greene stopped building boats in the mid 70's.

You may want to share these pics with the best sailboat marine service shop in your area for ideas and estimates as well.

Good luck!
 

hopscotch

New Member
According to Harry Milling an employee and sailmaker for Ray Greene, Rascal and its bigger brother Rebel (16) were originally manufactured by Rebel Industries in Jackson, Michigan. Ray Greene was doing a college thesis in 1948 in conjunction with Owens Corning using honeycombed fiberglass. Sometime later it was manufactured in Canidaigua, NY by German Brothers and eventually the hull designs were sold to Spindrift. Spindrift did produce the Rascal and I have one of the owners manuals for the Rascal from them. Spindrift later moved production to Tallevast, Florida. I had contact with the sailmaker who originally worked for Rebel Industries and had the sail and mast dimensions. I had my boat (Hopscotch) refitted with a larger dia mast (2.4" x 3") and bought a new set of sails from Bacon and Associates who list the sail dimensions under Venture sailboats. I have sailed Hopscotch on the Finger Lakes in New York and on Lake Ontario since 1987. Just this year I replaced the centerboard trunk, refiber-glassing the plywood on both sides and finishing with a good 2-part epoxy. I did some additional epoxy work on the hull below the waterline and have her ready to sail this spring. She is forgiving and fun to sail. We have sailed larger boats but still enjoy the thrill of feeling the lift when the sails are trimmed right and running the rails on the ragged edge.
 

BillRayGreene14

New Member
image.jpg image.jpg I recently purchased a ray greene rascal also and was wondering what the original rigging looked like. Specifically the main sheet system. I don't suppose that owners manual has pics of it. It appears from the pic above it may have came with a traveler system. Any thoughts? Here are aome pics of mine.
 

Steve Namenye

New Member
Not sure what I do is "original," but this was the set up on the boat as I received it when purchased. My sailing vocabulary is small, but I'll give it my best shot here.

There are small blocks attached to the two corners of the stern, another block on the end of the boom (with swivel), another one mid-boom with swivel, then the block/cleat combo attached to the centerboard bunk that you see in the pic above. One end of the line has a snap, I connect it to the boom end at the same point the swivel block is attached. Then I run the line down through a corner block, across to the other corner block, up to the boom-end block, through to the mid-boom block, then down to the bunk block/cleat. So, the main sheet line sort of forms its own traveler.

Hope this helps. I'll be interested if anyone has any other rigging examples for this boat.
 

BillRayGreene14

New Member
image.jpg Yes. This helps a ton! I thought this was how it was supposed to be set up but wasn't sure. It would appear I'm missing three blocks. One on the aft end of boom and two below.
I'm also extremely new to sailing and it seems most of the things I can find assume you already know how to rig a boat.
If someone has a pic of that boom end block that'd be awesome. Being so far inland there are few and far between sailboat parts available other than online.
 

Steve Namenye

New Member
"bought a new set of sails from Bacon and Associates who list the sail dimensions under Venture sailboats."

I didn't see Rascal sails on baconsails.com. Curious if you have those sail dimensions, Hopscotch. Wondering how much a new set would cost. Sails stretch and ropes shrink and my sails are a perfect example. Also, the bolt rope seems to go all the way around the tack (corner of the sail where the boom meets the mast), keeping the sail from going all the way up mast as the bolt rope jams where the slot for the sail narrows. Curious if yours does the same. I'd like to not have to put my head between my knees when we come about!
 

Michael Rosso

Brakewind
Well shuck my corn, as soon as I stop looking for information about my Rascal I find others who own them. Only now I have more questions. I'm pretty sure mine is an '84, but your cockpits look completely different than mine.
 

Michael Rosso

Brakewind
Just noticed that your boats came with a topping lift. Wish mine had. It's a pain using that boom crutch every time I go to lower the main. Was considering modifying the jib for a small roller furling system so I could sail single handed a little easier.
 

Steve Namenye

New Member
Michael, you have a more modern (and, may I say, better looking) version of the Rascal. I suspect yours was built by SpinDrift. Ours were probably 70's predecesors. Ray Greene stopped building 'em around 1975. My boom goes "boom" when I lower the main. =o) I'm in west Michigan. Where are you guys from? Also curious if Rascal 14 ever took that boat home.
 

Michael Rosso

Brakewind
Thanks, Steve. If I may ask, where in W. Michigan? I'm just east of Ann Arbor, but I keep my boat up at Elk Lake near Traverse City.
You are correct. My boat is definitely by SpinDrift OneDesigns. It's what I learned to sail on and I love it. I had the same problem with my mainsail jamming in the track last summer but when I took the down the mast I realized that it was due to a portion of the lake bottom being forced into it when my friend and I were seeing how far we could heel it over....and turtled it. :) That boat was NOT meant for hiking out. I've toyed with the idea of putting a trapeze on it but I don't think it would be wise.
 

Steve Namenye

New Member
Curious, what is the center board made of on the SpinDrift version. Mine is metal and heavy. We've had water over the rail but have never spilled her. I think the heavy center board keeps her stable.
 

Michael Rosso

Brakewind
Curious, what is the center board made of on the SpinDrift version. Mine is metal and heavy. We've had water over the rail but have never spilled her. I think the heavy center board keeps her stable.
You might be right, Steve. Although it would have to be pretty heavy! Mine's made from mahogany. So is my rudder. This is the best pic I have of my rudder right now, but you can make out the differences between the SpinDrift version and the early models.

I also made a new, shorter tiller so that I could ad an extention. The one that came with the boat was so long it made it a pain to tack.
 

Steve Namenye

New Member
I like the cup holders!

Yes, I think I saw one post somewhere that a guy took the centerboard out and couldn't pick it up. He thought it was 80 lbs. That could make a difference in keeping a Rascal upright. I do like the looks of the newer boats like yours.
 

Michael Rosso

Brakewind
No kidding!? Wow. That thing must be made out of lead to be that heavy. I never would have guessed. I suppose that would make a huge difference with stability in a boat that light.
Thanks for the compliment on the cup holders, it's just too bad they don't work very well. Too big and too shallow to hold anything for very long!
 

Michael Rosso

Brakewind
Steve,
I'm looking at the pics of Rascal's boat. The line underneath the main sheet in the jam cleat, is that the halyard for the main?
 

Ghagley-Rascal-14

New Member
Hello all my name if George from Hampton Roads Virginia. I picked up a 1981 Spindrift One Design Rascal and have a few questions.
1. My boat is missing the capacity sticker that shows the max persons and weight so if anyone has this sticker can they post a picture or just the info from it so I can have it recreated?

2. I noticed there was talk of the later models having a topping lift, but mine does not. I have two metal pieces at the top of the mast on the right hand side where is looks like something is missing. I am thinking this could be where the topping lift attached. The first two pictures below are the metal bracket I am talking about.

I also attached a few pictures with the sails up (trailer sailing :) ) to show the whole rig I have. I don't think my Jib is original because it doesn't have the window advertised in the flyer I saw.

I hope to have the boat on the water soon. It needed a few repairs like a new drain plug and a new trailer. I ordered a 3.5 HP motor for it and It should be here soon.
IMG_1356[1].JPG IMG_1357[1].JPG IMG_1344.JPGIMG_1347.JPG
 
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Ghagley-Rascal-14

New Member
Thank you for the information. I will have a sticker made. I have a 3.5 HP on mine and it moved along pretty good with just me on board. I am surprised at the 425 weight limit, but this is about max I would ever want to put on her anyway.

I went on my first sea trials a few days ago and came back with a list of things to fix. I made my traveler removable because I found using the engine with the rudder installed gave me almost no control. I made a leash on the rudder so that when I am installing it out in open water it will be hooked to the boat. Loosing it at the bottom of the James river doesn't sound fun. The bungee cord in my rudder assembly way worn out and it allowed my blade to float up all the time. I replaced that with a heavy duty cord so hopefully no more issues with the board floating up. I installed a new pulley on the side of the mast to use as a topping lift and on the trailer it worked great. I also installed a new cleat on the forward side of the mast to hold the topping lift. Having the boom down in my way was a real pain. I replaced both my halyard lines because when hooked together they were about 3 inched short of the cleats. This meant I have to lashed them to the mast when transporting. They also kept getting tangled. The new longer ones allow me to cleat them to their respective cleats and they stay up out of the way.

I saw in a earlier post that one member shortened his tiller and added a extension. I am thinking of doing the same thing as the tiller reaches almost to the centerboard trunk.

As long as the weather holds I will have her out on the water again tomorrow. Happy sailing all.
 

Michael Rosso

Brakewind
Nice boat! It's identical to mine (except for the color). I still have my specifications sticker on mine, but it's so faded I couldn't make anything out.
Trying to figure out what that bracket is on yours but haven't a clue. Our boat didn't come with a topping lift but I can't see why you couldn't put one in. That's actually the next thing I plan on doing with mine. Did yours come with a spinnaker? Mine did, but it doesn't look like the original. I have the original whisker pole but haven't a clue how to use the darn thing.
Let me know if you decide to throw in the lift. I'd be interested to know how you end up putting one in.
Happy sailing
Mike
 

Ghagley-Rascal-14

New Member
Nice boat! It's identical to mine (except for the color). I still have my specifications sticker on mine, but it's so faded I couldn't make anything out.
Trying to figure out what that bracket is on yours but haven't a clue. Our boat didn't come with a topping lift but I can't see why you couldn't put one in. That's actually the next thing I plan on doing with mine. Did yours come with a spinnaker? Mine did, but it doesn't look like the original. I have the original whisker pole but haven't a clue how to use the darn thing.
Let me know if you decide to throw in the lift. I'd be interested to know how you end up putting one in.
Happy sailing
Mike
Mike I did end up putting the topping lift on. I found the pictured pulley at lowes and it works great. I also installed a cleat on the forward side of the mast, about the same height of the other cleats, to be able to adjust the topping lift. There was a hole above the pulley on my boom that I saw no other use for so I hooked the topping lift there with a spring clip. I used a regular cleat and ended up have the jib sheets catch on it several times. I would suggest putting the cleat higher on the mast or using a jam cleat the won't leave anything to catch the lines.

I went sailing today with this setup and couldn't be happier with the topping lift. I also made my traveler removable like yours and I hook both side of it to the stbd side when using the motor. This keeps the boom out of my way while coming in and out of port. I also ordered some mast guide stops so that I can hold the boom up about as high as it's sailing position. This will leave the deck completely open. I will usually be single handed sailing this boat so anything like this to make my life easier is worth it.

BillRayGreene answered above on the capacity. his is rated for 5HP 3 persons or 425 pounds. This seems pretty light to me but I guess they is how they are rated. Any more weight then that and it would be pretty sluggish in the water I would think.

My boat only came with a jib and main sail. I don't think the jib is original as it doesn't have the window in it. The jib also seems a bit small for the boat, but I still move along pretty good so I have no plans to change it. I would love to have a spinnaker too, but at this point I am a beginner and the two sails are plenty to handle.

I think one of my next projects will be to shorten the tiller and add a extension (push pole) to it. I was also going to try to use the push pole and a clamp mounted on the side of the boat to act as a rudder lock while I am working hoisting sails or anything else I need to do while letting go of the tiller.
download.jpg
 

Michael Rosso

Brakewind
Excellent!
I did the same thing to my tiller last summer and it works great, although more often than not it tends to be more trouble than it's worth unless you're sitting hiked out on the gunwale. Putting in some kind of clamp to lock the tiller in place would be a GREAT idea. Trying to coax my wife to come sailing is like pulling teeth so I too often find myself on the water wondering... how the f%@ am I going to hoist the main, and the jib, yank the centerboard down and still hold onto the rudder before the wind blows me into shore?? ... and then the same thing in reverse as I'm coming in. But then you have a motor so you don't have to worry about that, do you? :)
I've spoken with a couple people about modifying my jib for a small Harken roller furler. That would make things VERY nice when single-handing about on the lake, eh?
As for my traveler, it's sort of hacked together right now. I'm thinking of making something up with 1/8" stainless cable that's clipped on both ends for easier removal. I've also toyed with the idea of putting in a pair of hiking straps but now that I have a laser, my need to go fast has been slightly mollified.
Do you leave your topping lift on once you've raised the main? I was thinking if I had one I would just un-clip it and fasten it to the mast or something to have it ready for when I'm ready to lower it back down.
Mike
 

Ghagley-Rascal-14

New Member
Excellent!
I did the same thing to my tiller last summer and it works great, although more often than not it tends to be more trouble than it's worth unless you're sitting hiked out on the gunwale. Putting in some kind of clamp to lock the tiller in place would be a GREAT idea. Trying to coax my wife to come sailing is like pulling teeth so I too often find myself on the water wondering... how the f%@ am I going to hoist the main, and the jib, yank the centerboard down and still hold onto the rudder before the wind blows me into shore?? ... and then the same thing in reverse as I'm coming in. But then you have a motor so you don't have to worry about that, do you? :)
I've spoken with a couple people about modifying my jib for a small Harken roller furler. That would make things VERY nice when single-handing about on the lake, eh?
As for my traveler, it's sort of hacked together right now. I'm thinking of making something up with 1/8" stainless cable that's clipped on both ends for easier removal. I've also toyed with the idea of putting in a pair of hiking straps but now that I have a laser, my need to go fast has been slightly mollified.
Do you leave your topping lift on once you've raised the main? I was thinking if I had one I would just un-clip it and fasten it to the mast or something to have it ready for when I'm ready to lower it back down.
Mike

I left my topping lift attached to the boom and just loosed it so it didnt affect the sail. Mine is cleated on the mast so its pretty easy to do while hoisting the sails. I have seen topping lifts that had a cleat inline so the line only went from the mast top to the boom which means one less lime to tangle.

I considered trying to do a roller furling as well. Would make one less line on the deck to get tangled up in too.

My orginal traveler was a peice of 1/4 lime attached to the aft d rings. I replaced the line and added a spring clip on each end. I remove my rudder while out in the water for motoring so this also makes getting rudder on/off a lot easier.

The motor does make things nice. I drop the sails at the enterance to the channel which is about 1000 to 1500 feet from the ramps. All water near me is tidal so trying to row in would not be practical. I also have to come in around a breakwater which means two 90 degree turns in tight quarters.

Happy sailing
George
 

hopscotch

New Member
Just read your post and had to look at my rating tag...it's different. My Rascal is an older Ray Greene boat built in 1972. It's rated for a 3.5 HP motor, 5 people at 150#s each and a total capacity including motor at 970 lbs. We rarely have more than 2-3 people and a new but crummy Evinrude 1.75 hp motor (I would never buy a motor again that's hard to service and has a 360 deg swivell for reverse.
 

Ghagley-Rascal-14

New Member
Thank you for taking a look at the capacity tag. It is weird that the same hull form (I assume it didn't change) would have such drastic numbers. From what I read the earlier ones had a steel centerboard which would move the CG lower and allow a heaver load without worrying about balance. I would think throughout the years the numbers got more conservative to please the lawyers too. 2 adults or maybe an adult and two kids would be fine.

I put a 3.5 HP china made engine on mine. It pushes the boat and myself along pretty good. I would guess 4 to 6 knots. I have the 180 degree turn for reverse thing too and it can be hairy around the dock if you need to back up quick. Mine also idles high so the prop pretty much always spins which makes it fun.

I had about 900 lbs total (boat motor and people) on board once and I took on some water. I would guess all the weight pushed the transom down into the water and the drain plug let water in. I plan to fill the boat with some water and see if water comes out through the plug. The centerboard trunk looks to be integrated into the outer bull of the boat not leaving anywhere for a leak there.
 

garydmost

New Member
I have a 1974 Rascal with a centerboard trunk leak. The hull in the trunk area had been wrapped with fiberglass in the past. I turned the boat over and smoothed out the rough areas of fiberglass that projected into the slot. I discovered that the fiberglass in the stern portion of the trunk had delaminted and the plywood underneath was rotten. The rot continued up the inside of the vertical back of the trunk. Does the whole trunk have to be replaced or does just the areas where rot is present? I also discovered a leak inside the hull near the transom on the floor of the cockpit. When I push on the floor water squirts out of leak. There is no visible crack or hole in the hull on the outside of the hull near the leak area. Is it possible that the leak starts at the trunk rot and goes all the way back to the transom area? I don't know if the hull is a sandwich of two fiberglass layups or if there is a plywood sandwich in the floor of the hull that has rot all the way from the trunk to the stern. Any ideas about the construction of this early Rascal hull and solutions to my problem are welcome. The one sail I had with my son and grandson was exciting before discovering the leak so if it is all possible to repair the leaks with a reasonable effort I would love to continue sailing my Rascal.
 
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