laser161116
New Member
Hey Guys, I just got a radial rig and I was wondering if there is any differences between sailing the full rig and the radial.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Radial vs. Full Rig How to Sail
- Thread starter laser161116
- Start date
phantomdarkness
New Member
Biggest difference
Don't two-block the main in a radial, let it out about 6 inches, i think
Secondly, the controls are a bit different, less vang is one, haven't figured out the difference in outhaul and cunnigham
Don't two-block the main in a radial, let it out about 6 inches, i think
Secondly, the controls are a bit different, less vang is one, haven't figured out the difference in outhaul and cunnigham
will162878
New Member
I posted a message answering this question on the Laser Email List so search the archives. But to summarise:
The differences can be divided into 3 main categories:
The differences can be divided into 3 main categories:
- Sail Setup
- Boat Handling
- Mixed Fleet Issues
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Sail Setup (Sail Trim and Tuning)
The radial sail is not only smaller but also cut differently resulting in a different shape and stretch properties. The method for depowering the rig is basically the same. (Tighten cunningham, kicker and outhaul in that order to depower.) The main sail setup difference is the details of the above and the mainsheet tension.
Upwind, don't block to block the mainsheet unless you are so overpowered that you have to because the Radial will just stop dead in the water with the sheet double blocked. About 4 to 6 inches (10 to 15cm) is about right.
As for sail controls: Always use the "Fist rule" for outhaul tension. Make sure that you always have the outhaul no tighter than the distance between the boom of one fist and no looser that two fists.
Boat Handling
The only issue in this area that I can think of is the roll of the radial. Due to lighter mast sections etc, the radial does nto roll as easily as the full rig. More effort is needed in roll tacks etc.
Mixed Fleet Racing Issues
Remember when you are racing a radial with full rigs, that you are the slowest boat in the fleet and full rigs WILL sail over you. Don't expect to beat full rigs in all conditions so don't let them get you down!!
As Will stated, it is easier to depower and is certaintly more foccused to the lighter sailors. Since there is a much smaller sail area it is not as hard to keep down. I've sailed both rigs alot but over the past year i've foccused more on the radial. As far as i can tell, there is no pointing difference or too many stratigical differences I have noticed. Yes, roll taking and gybing does take a little more thrust but it is easier and faster to recover afterwords.
Good luck!
Good luck!
will162878
New Member
Rolling Radials
Roll tacking a radial is different to a laser in how much force you have to use. You need to put more effort into heeling it over but be careful when pulling it back upright. If you pull it upright too fast, you will stall the sail and lose any gains made by the roll. (Sorry- gains is not the right word - I should say "consolidation" to keep RRS 42 fans happy....)
As always you need to practice with the rig you use.
When going into a full rig from a radial - don't over roll because you risk capsizing if you apply your radial technique to the full rig.
Roll tacking a radial is different to a laser in how much force you have to use. You need to put more effort into heeling it over but be careful when pulling it back upright. If you pull it upright too fast, you will stall the sail and lose any gains made by the roll. (Sorry- gains is not the right word - I should say "consolidation" to keep RRS 42 fans happy....)
As always you need to practice with the rig you use.
When going into a full rig from a radial - don't over roll because you risk capsizing if you apply your radial technique to the full rig.
phantomdarkness
New Member
Yeah, the technique is baisically the same, just different amount of force
How do you guys roll tack? i mean, how do you throw your weight out? i use the hiking strap wrapped around the leg.
How do you guys roll tack? i mean, how do you throw your weight out? i use the hiking strap wrapped around the leg.
will162878
New Member
Roll Tacks
I am no expert on this area but here is my rough guide:
Only roll tack a laser in less then 10 knots of wind.
Come in from any leaning out/hiking and allow the boat to heel a bit to leeward.
Push the tiller away as per normal.
STAY PUT
Straighten up the tiller when onthe new course, while still on the old side and just before you capsize, dive up to the other side and pull the boat flat. feel the boat accelerate away onto the new course....
Practice will help you decide where "nearly capsizing" is and the rate at which you need to pull the boat flat to get the best acceleration.
I am no expert on this area but here is my rough guide:
Only roll tack a laser in less then 10 knots of wind.
Come in from any leaning out/hiking and allow the boat to heel a bit to leeward.
Push the tiller away as per normal.
STAY PUT
Straighten up the tiller when onthe new course, while still on the old side and just before you capsize, dive up to the other side and pull the boat flat. feel the boat accelerate away onto the new course....
Practice will help you decide where "nearly capsizing" is and the rate at which you need to pull the boat flat to get the best acceleration.
phantomdarkness
New Member
yeah, that is SOMETHING like what i do
will162878
New Member
Detailed Roll Tack Guide....
Reading my last post, I think a more detailed explanation is required. This is a list of "instructions" for roll tacking. Laser sailors are lucky when it comes to this area of sailing because there is no need for any coordination with crew!
-You are sailing close hauled, semi-hiking out.
-Move in, to sit on side of boat, lean inward if necessary to get slight leeward heel.
-Use gentle rudder to help the boat into the wind (the leeward heel should steer you up into the wind.)
-As you go head to wind and lose speed, hike out (hardish) on the old windward side (the side you are still on) to heel the boat on top of you, the boat will surge forward, through the wind and the sail will come across.
-STAY PUT ON THE OLD SIDE
-Use gentle rudder if neccessary to steer onto new course.
-Once on new course, centralise tiller and wait until you are about to capsize to the new leeward (due to your weight being on the "wrong" (leeward) side.
-When you think you are only milliseconds away from a cold swim, stand up and cross the boat. (Standing up will mean your head goes up under the boom and you can "walk" up the upturned boat.
-Sit on the new windward side.
-Pull the boat up most of the way, leaving only about 10º to 20º heel to leeward. (That is gunwhale nearly in the water.)
Assess your course. If pointing too high, hike hard to flatten the boat and bear off. If too low, let the boat heel and poitn up towards the wind, then when on your desired course, hike to flatten the boat. In both cases, the flattening of the boat makes you accelerate away onto the new course.
Notes:
As the above list shows, there are actually two rolls. Since the rules say that speed out of tack has to equal or less than initial speed, use the rolls to maintain speed and gain ground to windward. This results in a tack that takes longer and the turning circle of the boat is wider but you have gained valuable distance to windward without breaking the rules concerning speed.
Practice is needed. Reading and remembering this post will not get you to the top mark first on a 5 knot day. When learning to roll tack a laser, you will sometimes wait too long and capsize but other times you will pull up too early and miss out on the maximum acceleration.
Going back to the root of this thread: Radials require more effort to heel over and less to pull back up then full rigs. Therefore, for sailors switching to another rig, you have to go out and practice to adjust your technique to the new rig.
Don't try to roll tack a laser in more than light winds (under 10 knots) because you won't be able to pull it upright, resulting in slow, heeled sailing or even a capsize. In strong winds, flat = fast and the faster you dive to the new side and get hiking, the better.
Reading my last post, I think a more detailed explanation is required. This is a list of "instructions" for roll tacking. Laser sailors are lucky when it comes to this area of sailing because there is no need for any coordination with crew!
-You are sailing close hauled, semi-hiking out.
-Move in, to sit on side of boat, lean inward if necessary to get slight leeward heel.
-Use gentle rudder to help the boat into the wind (the leeward heel should steer you up into the wind.)
-As you go head to wind and lose speed, hike out (hardish) on the old windward side (the side you are still on) to heel the boat on top of you, the boat will surge forward, through the wind and the sail will come across.
-STAY PUT ON THE OLD SIDE
-Use gentle rudder if neccessary to steer onto new course.
-Once on new course, centralise tiller and wait until you are about to capsize to the new leeward (due to your weight being on the "wrong" (leeward) side.
-When you think you are only milliseconds away from a cold swim, stand up and cross the boat. (Standing up will mean your head goes up under the boom and you can "walk" up the upturned boat.
-Sit on the new windward side.
-Pull the boat up most of the way, leaving only about 10º to 20º heel to leeward. (That is gunwhale nearly in the water.)
Assess your course. If pointing too high, hike hard to flatten the boat and bear off. If too low, let the boat heel and poitn up towards the wind, then when on your desired course, hike to flatten the boat. In both cases, the flattening of the boat makes you accelerate away onto the new course.
Notes:
As the above list shows, there are actually two rolls. Since the rules say that speed out of tack has to equal or less than initial speed, use the rolls to maintain speed and gain ground to windward. This results in a tack that takes longer and the turning circle of the boat is wider but you have gained valuable distance to windward without breaking the rules concerning speed.
Practice is needed. Reading and remembering this post will not get you to the top mark first on a 5 knot day. When learning to roll tack a laser, you will sometimes wait too long and capsize but other times you will pull up too early and miss out on the maximum acceleration.
Going back to the root of this thread: Radials require more effort to heel over and less to pull back up then full rigs. Therefore, for sailors switching to another rig, you have to go out and practice to adjust your technique to the new rig.
Don't try to roll tack a laser in more than light winds (under 10 knots) because you won't be able to pull it upright, resulting in slow, heeled sailing or even a capsize. In strong winds, flat = fast and the faster you dive to the new side and get hiking, the better.
Just another thing about using the hiking strap to hold on to - don't do that.
- As i was taught, you shouldn't use the hiking strap wrapped around your leg because it minimizes your agility to correct the heel of the boat. It also minimizes your ability to correct the roll tack or gybe in weight distrabution matters. If you are free from the strap, you can make many more quick adjustmeants to save yourself a dip in the drink.
- Another valid point is that when going through the tack or gybe always have your knees facing forwards. Do not just think "Ok, all I have to do is thrust all my weight backwards." Just keep your knees forwards, your aft hand on the tiller, you bow hand with the mainsheet and ALSO holding on to the handrail on the close side of the cockpit. With this, carefully ease your weight to the old windward side while guiding the boat through the turn with the tiller. It will all make sence to him after some practice.
- As i was taught, you shouldn't use the hiking strap wrapped around your leg because it minimizes your agility to correct the heel of the boat. It also minimizes your ability to correct the roll tack or gybe in weight distrabution matters. If you are free from the strap, you can make many more quick adjustmeants to save yourself a dip in the drink.
- Another valid point is that when going through the tack or gybe always have your knees facing forwards. Do not just think "Ok, all I have to do is thrust all my weight backwards." Just keep your knees forwards, your aft hand on the tiller, you bow hand with the mainsheet and ALSO holding on to the handrail on the close side of the cockpit. With this, carefully ease your weight to the old windward side while guiding the boat through the turn with the tiller. It will all make sence to him after some practice.
will162878
New Member
Also: Keep well forward during the tack.
phantomdarkness
New Member
here is a little underhand thing to do 
When you begin to tack, ease out a little main, then when you flatten, trim in hard. giving you a pump. it works quite well, and i have never been protested before
When you begin to tack, ease out a little main, then when you flatten, trim in hard. giving you a pump. it works quite well, and i have never been protested before
will162878
New Member
That's also what lots of coaches recommend and is probably a good thing anyway because when tacking without rolling, you should come out of the tack with the main eased a little so you gather speed before pointing up.
phantomdarkness
New Member
yeah, the pump gives you extra speed, which can be good, especially if you had to attack to avoid a collesion, and the person will be right on top of you, you can get into clear air with the pump and roll
will162878
New Member
Tacks and Rolling Rules for Radials....
You gotta watch the rulebook with pumps though. If you do 10 big roll tacks and get ahead of a boat you were 10m behind, they will ask questions.
RRS 42.3 (a) states:
Also, RRS 42.2 (e) states:
It is RRS 42 that the umpires know back to front, inside out so don't try to beat them at their own game.... If you race a laser, RRS 42 should be pretty well known to you to though.
You gotta watch the rulebook with pumps though. If you do 10 big roll tacks and get ahead of a boat you were 10m behind, they will ask questions.
RRS 42.3 (a) states:
Also, RRS 42.2 (e) states:
It is RRS 42 that the umpires know back to front, inside out so don't try to beat them at their own game.... If you race a laser, RRS 42 should be pretty well known to you to though.
laser161116
New Member
thanks guys - that roll tacking stuff sounds helpful, but i'm not sure about roll tacking up to 10 knots. I have trouble rolling the boat in anything above 6 (in a full rig, i've never sailed a radial)
will162878
New Member
You should be able to roll a radial in winds near 10 knots but I would agree that roll tacking full rigs has to stay in winds of about 7 knots or less. That's just my best guess though.