question for guys who do a lot of frostbiting

cpeahl256

New Member
I am going to be frostbiting for the first time this year in RI and am wondering what most of you guys wear. I have a drysuit that i am going to use.... do u wear hiking pants under the drysuit? I cant imaging getting them over the suit. Should I worry about wearing through the seat of the dry suit?
 
If you can, wetsuit (hikers, thermal top etc) as long as you can, no drysuit (drysuit limits mobility a bit and cuts down the "feel")

Drysuit when it get's really cold (Dec thru March)
Hikers underneath, no worries about wearing out drysuit seat.

Search the threads here, we've talked about what people like/works a lot
 
Layer, layer, layer, layer....then another layer. Good gloves, good hat (covering ears).

I sweat like crazy even in a "breathable" drysuit and the loss of mobility means its more likely that you'll go for a swim.

We sail unless the lake is completely covered in ice or we can't create enough open water to be usable. The secret is a few short races (normally a couple of 45 min pursuits)

The only issue i ever have is keeping my feet warm...have to keep moving my toes to get the blood flowing through.

Some of my most memorable sailing days have been in the depths of winter with crystal clear air, the bluest sky and warming sun glinting off the fresh snow on the shoreline.....

me.......I love frostbiting
 
fat 'n' old you ever tried a Wetsuit sock?

In winter I go out in 3/4 Hikers with a dry top (under which many layers of thermal baselayers and maybe a microfleece). Feet wise I wear my 3mm neoprene summer shoe with a 3mm wetsuit sock underneath.

There is a bit of bare lower leg exposed between hikers and wetsuit socks, however my legs are quite hairy and I find I can use the hairs to determin the wind direction :p
 
LuckyJack
I do have a pair of wetsuit socks and jolly good they are too, but me poor old tootsies still get a tad chilly. I'm thinking of filling the wetsocks with goose fat this winter. It works for the geese and it would also make them really easy to slip on.
 
I'm thinking of filling the wetsocks with goose fat this winter. It works for the geese and it would also make them really easy to slip on.

Geese round here don't wear wet suit socks (at least none of those I've seen do). Maybe some pictures ?

Ian
 
I sail in the Newport fleet. I wear a drysuit with Jean or fleece underneath depends on temp. I like staying dry so I have not thought about the wetsuit. I do not wear hikers but I would probably try to get them on the outside. A nice windproof hat is beautifal.
 
Ian, You must have Canada Geese, like around here, guessing they're slightly more used to cold weather coming from Canada. Bit like like a Geordie in London.....

I suppose goose fat could work as long as you are sitting upwind of your feet

Jack
 
I allways sit upwind from my feet otherwise the boat tips over :)

Never been sitting aside the raised daggerboard facing astern on a run when there's naff all wind? Frustrating to say that's the norm where I sail (R.Dee @ Chester). Moving clubs soon.......
 
Never been sitting aside the raised daggerboard facing astern on a run when there's naff all wind? Frustrating to say that's the norm where I sail (R.Dee @ Chester). Moving clubs soon.......

Been in that position many times..lol

I know that part of the world well.(Cheshire lad myself :) )..although i've never sailed on the Dee. I would have thought you could blast up to West KIrby from there...where are you thinking of joining?
 
In the fall the air usually gets colder and the water stays wetsuit warm into Dec (nice for launching in a wetsuit, can get cold sailing if the air is really cold), in the spring the water is cold even after the air warms up (you'll have to dip in cold water to launch but will comfortable when sailing), A wetsuit gives you more mobility and if the temperatures alow its a good choice, my new breathable drysuit fits nicely and doesn't restrict movement as much as other ones I've used. I highly suggest wearing a front zip drysuit since you can get in and out easily, If it gets too hot you can also unzip the front to let some cool air in and/or take off a layer, You'll want to wear your hiking pants on the inside,
 
I've been frostbiting the last two years and have been using a zhik superwarm skiff suit. Not cheap but, I've sailed in 30 degree weather chipping ice out of the boat (FJ) and felt perfectly warm in the suit. In fact, when I've taken it off after racing I usually find that I've actually been sweating in it. Two friends have since bought the same skiff suit and love it. One sailed lasers and the other was my crew on FJs. I'll be sailing laser this winter. Our temperatures down here in DC tend to be in the 40 degree range 30s is occassional. Water temps on the Potomac get pretty low as well. So, clearly not RI weather but cold nonetheless. Chota, puts out a waterproof dinghy boot that is closed-cell neoprene. I'll be getting those this year and likely will wear them over a wool sock. I've used Chota mukluks for foredeck work on the PHRF boats I'm on and love them. They are warm, dry, flexible and have great traction.

Oh and the Zhik suit also has a loo rip so that you don't have to pull the whole thing off to hit the head.

Down here alot of people just wear the Zhik suit and a spray top for frostbiting. I'm not quite that hardy. I also wear the Zhik superwarm top.
 
Been in that position many times..lol

I know that part of the world well.(Cheshire lad myself :) )..although i've never sailed on the Dee. I would have thought you could blast up to West KIrby from there...where are you thinking of joining?

I had a look at the big clubs in the northwest earlier this year, the likes of Budworth, Leigh & Lowton, Bala, West Kirby. All are about an hours drive in different direction (West Kirby probably more 40mins depending on what the high road is like.) Only Leigh & Lowton have a sizable fleet of 10+ reguler from looking at there results. There is another very little known club by Chester which is Shotwick Lake (heard of it?, most people at Chester haven't) Its a decent sized purpose built sailing lake which was originally the British Steel Sailing Association (Corus Colours). Its pretty open to the Dee estuary and the Welsh hills so prevailing is pretty good. Laser wise 5-6 active (2 Laser Youth Squad) however I counted 26 in their dinghy park when I went down today. Ideal location to build a fleet I guess. Have arranged to move my boat there next Saturday.

Think its going to be cold there so going back on to subject. I wouldn't go as far as a drysuit I tend to find they don't fit me very well being tall and quite slender. To get the height I have to get them slightly too broad. I inquired earlier this year about getting a Musto MPX however on fitting there was two much material on the Large however not enough height on the Medium, Musto suggested buying a medium and then parting with more money for them to extend the legs (something like an extra £40 a leg) however I was advised this would void there guarantee. Just seemed to expensive for me. fat-n-old> you know a good supplier of goose fat?

Jack
 
Jack, just a thought for you. Try Crosby SC over the other side of the Mersey. We normally have about 6 - 10 lasers out racing, hoping for a few more vistors over the winter. Sail on sea water filled lake so it doesn't freeze over like most did last winter. L & L only sailed 3 weekends out of 3 months when they froze over. I would think shotwich will do the same as its fresh water. Check out the website www.crosby-s-c.yolasite.com its a newly built centre cost £10.5 million. :eek:
Ian
 
I had my first winter back in a laser in many years with Fleet 413 in Newport R.I last winter. It took me a while to get the clothing figured out in order to stay warm enough and still maintain the mobility needed to race the boat well. I brought the Zhik superwarm skiff suit with power pads and coupled with the Zhik superwarm top I almost never find my core getting cold. Underneath the superwarm top I wear a magic marine lycra top that has some sort of light thermal fleece inside it. This combination is pretty nice.

The hands and feet took a little more time to figure out, but late in the season (when it was really cold) I finally found the combination that worked for me. When it is seriously cold I use "Glacier Gloves". These are neoprene with a light fleece linning. The nice thing is the Gloves are built with preformed bent fingers. Apparently kiteboarders use these alot. These seem to offer just enough dexterity to be able to sail the boat hold the mainsheet and adjust all the controls while still keeping the hands warm. I tried all sorts of other glove combinations including the Atlas and Gill gloves along with regular sailing gloves. These were fine in the fall, but come January and February you need some serious gloves or you will be hurting....or at least i was until I found these.

For footwear I started off with an old pair of Aigle boots I had, and these coupled with 3mm neoprene socks were fine for the fall and early winter. As it got colder and my feet became blocks of ice I upgraded to the Zhik 250 boot as these are neoprene again with an insulated linning. I coupled these with the neoprene socks and even used sealskin waterproof socks over these a few times. the waterproof socks didnt really seem waterproof, but did add an additional layer of warmth. My feet were still not toasty...but it was tolerable.

I used a drysuit on one of the seriously cold days and absolutely hated it. I felt like the michelin man and just couldn't move around the boat very well. I stuck with my wetsuit combination throughout the entire winter and once I got the gloves and boots sorted out I felt pretty comfortable on even the coldest days.....or at least warm enough to be able to function and sail.

The Zhik gear is not cheap but in my mind if I was going to frostbite I needed to invest in some gear that was at least going to allow me to enjoy the sailing and not have it become a hate mission.

I really enjoyed Frostbiting last year and will definitely be back this season. Fleet 413 in Newport are a great group of guys and girls and the fleet captains Dave and Stu do an excellent job coordinating the group and getting the word out.

Hope this was of some help.

Hope to see you out there.

Best Regards

Dave Armitage
 
Hi Wessel

Yes I probably went in 3 times over the course of the season wearing the superwarm top and skiff suit. I was pretty happy with the warmth retention of the gear and was fine to continue sailing once I had gone in.

The day I wore the drysuit was 12-18 kts and I capsized once just because I could barely move in the darn thing.

I am so happy with the gear I now have, I am probably going to sell the drysuit.

Everyone is different, so you need to find what works for you. From casual observations last year i would say once it got really cold perhaps 40-60% of the people wore drysuits with the balance of people wearing wetsuits and some combination of drytop or spraytop.

Thats my 2 cents.
 
I'm just getting back into sailing after a 15 year break and bought a Laser after spending 2 weeks sailing one on a Neilson holiday in Kenya. Got back here ( South UK) and it's going to get cold... Been toying with the idea of a wetsuit as it seems a bit cheaper that winter wetsuit / spray suit etc. After reading all your thoughts on the subject, I thinking I will stick to the wetsuit option.
 
Check out the Rooster site. They have a lot of info on *layering* neoprene. I know that some of the posters here use the Rooster system in the UK and like it. I currently have a layered system like the Rooster system and like it but I am always looking to knock off that last bit of chill.
 
I frostbite in Ireland and i'd say our weather is pretty much the same temp as yours. I just wear rooster 3/4 length pro hikers, thermal rash vest, life jacket and smock over the lot. When the temp really drops I put a aquafleece under the smock for a little more insulation. I also have a pair of "palm" kayaking hot socks for inside my boots, fantastic but of kit. The part of my legs thats exposed never make me cold

although... I did fall out of the boat one severly windy day last january and I was so cold when I caught up with the boat and climbed in and stopped laughing I had to go to shore and have a shower!!!
 
Ah great guys, I will go down the wetsuit route. How essential are hiking shorts? Oh and do you all wear neoprene socks under your boots?
 
I am going to be frostbiting for the first time this year in RI and am wondering what most of you guys wear. I have a drysuit that i am going to use.... do u wear hiking pants under the drysuit? I cant imaging getting them over the suit. Should I worry about wearing through the seat of the dry suit?

You can wear hiking shorts over your drysuit, this way there is less wear on your drysuit and you can adjust the hiking shorts easier. If its uncomfortable, wear them on the inside.

Also with your drysuit, I throw on lycra socks over the rubber boots and they seem to really protect them from wear and tear; I wear an extra pair of lycra socks over my wool socks when it gets really cold.

I like to give my suit a quick fresh warm water rinse in the shower when I get home after sailing in salt water, the main thing to keep clean are the seals, boots and especially the zipper.
 
I also have the zhik skiff suit... It is THE best... Feels like yur not wearing anything. It is super warm even when you get wet... I highly recommend it. Then put some under armor as a top with a spray top over that. I have the 3 seasons gloves by gill which are great and the NRS neoprene socks... That is my frostbiting gear...
 
I also have the zhik skiff suit... It is THE best... Feels like yur not wearing anything. It is super warm even when you get wet... I highly recommend it. Then put some under armor as a top with a spray top over that. I have the 3 seasons gloves by gill which are great and the NRS neoprene socks... That is my frostbiting gear...

Where do you live?

Around here the water gets down to about 40F at the lowest. I'm just getting back into sailing again, so I don't remember what temperature I sailed down to. I have a full wetsuit (3mm) with some Gill dinghy boots. I have one long sleeve rash guard, no winter sailing gloves (at least I don't see any in my closet), and no waterproof socks (I have wool, if that works).

No waterproof hats or anything. I also have some offshore foul weather gear, but I doubt anyone uses that on a dinghy.

What do people recommend for these sort of temperatures? Water down to 40, air temperatures between about 25-35 at the lowest that I would sail.
 
Sail in the Hampton roads area in Virginia. I recomend the zhik skiff suit... A wetsuit would be ok but if you go in you will have never seen yourself as blue as you will be. The skiff suit has a layer system. A waterproof system and a thermal system. Were I sailed Sunday there was ice on the surface of the water. And we hade to wet launch our boats... I didn't feel a thing and I was waist high in water/ice. It's an investment but it is the ultimate frostbite suit
 
Sail in the Hampton roads area in Virginia. I recomend the zhik skiff suit... A wetsuit would be ok but if you go in you will have never seen yourself as blue as you will be. The skiff suit has a layer system. A waterproof system and a thermal system. Were I sailed Sunday there was ice on the surface of the water. And we hade to wet launch our boats... I didn't feel a thing and I was waist high in water/ice. It's an investment but it is the ultimate frostbite suit

Are you talking about the Zhik SuperWarm Skiff? What do you wear with that, a SuperWarm top I'd guess? You wear the hiking version or the wetsuit version or what? They have a lot of things named that on their website.

Price doesn't seem too bad really. If it's good down to 32* water, that's pretty impressive for a non-drysuit.
 
Yes the zhik superwarm skiff suit... The power pad hikers would be an awesome add on with the suit... I just wear a heavy under armor turtleneck and my spray top for my upper torso.
 
So using what I already have, what would people recommend I buy now to make it work for colder weather?

I've got a short sleeve rash guard, long sleeve rash guard, 3mm full wetsuit, and some Gill dinghy boots.

Water temperature would be 40 at the lowest, air temperature lowest of 30, and I'd be in the water to launch my boat, and I'm (re)new to Laser sailing, so I'll probably be in the water a bit.

Are there things that I could layer together with these to get warm enough? I'm looking around at Intensity since they have good deals. Maybe just add a hot top and a spray top overtop, use the rash guard underneath. I'd probably want an insulating layer though, ideas for that?

edit: also have some offshore foul weather gear. Forgot about that.

I don't really have any idea what to do for legs. I guess for feet I could use a pair of gore-tex socks together with my dinghy boots?

For hands use some Gill winter gloves, and find a nice sailing watchcap for the head?

There's just so many options.
 
Ehhh the wetsuit will be ok... I would be extremely careful. If you go in you might want to come off the water. Like I said the BEST thing to wear is the Zhik super warm skiff suit with an underarmor cold weather top (the rash guard might not be enough) with a spray top. The gortex socks would be perfect!!! And yes you def need winter weather sailing gloves. The thermal ones are the best. Once your hands get cold sailing will get more and more difficult and the derigging will just be frustrating when you can't grasp anything hahahah. The hat will be really nice too. The only thing I would consider if I were you is the skiff suit... The wetsuit just isn't the best system for frostbiting

Cheers
Lazzzerrr
 
The Zhik setup just seems really expensive for what it is. For that price I could buy a decent drysuit, which seems to be the ideal in most people's opinion.
 

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