Power Washer damage

Sure it's okay... sometimes a rivet is useful in a location where ya just can't reach the back side, not without cutting glass and perhaps installing an inspection port. Just go with your plan as stated, if you do the rivets right they should be nice and tight. I had to pop-rivet an engraved number plate over the existing hull number of my Minifish, as directed by the CA DMV when I had no paperwork for the craft and I registered it as a "home-built" boat, and there was no way to access the inside of the hull without tearing into the stern of the boat. No worries, I just used a drill bit with the exact same diameter of the rivets, used a little sealant on each hole between the hull and engraved plate, and the boat never leaked once, despite the fact that the plate was often underwater in heavy surface chop. Honestly, in this sort of situation, I think a good solid rivet placement is more important than anything else, I have a pretty good rivet gun and I use both hands to hold the gun at the correct angle and get a good blast, so to speak. Caulk or sealant doesn't hurt, but the rivet itself needs to be good and tight, and absolutely solid as far as placement goes. Just my $.02, aye? CHEERS!!! :rolleyes:

P.S. I dig the brush job on the boat, I've always maintained that a boat can look good even if it's painted by hand, the results depend mainly upon prep work and conditions such as zero wind, low humidity, favorable temperature, etc. Nice job!!! :cool:
 
Oh, yeah, forgot to address the Galloping Horse criteria and the 50-foot rule, LOL. Friend o' mine in high school was a male chauvinist pig, and he'd occasionally rate some gal's looks by saying she was 50-50, which meant she looked good at 50 meters or 50 miles per hour. :confused:
 
A bead of 3M 5200 would hold well but be difficult to remove in the future. 4200 is a compromise on the adhesive qualities and would probably be a good solution along the entire underside....neatly of course.
 
We have not come across washers on factory installations, just small bits of sealant, so why add washers? What we do is add a small blob of sealant around the rivet hole on the deck and insert the rivet through that. Assuming you have the proper factory spec, closed end aluminum rivet you should get zero to little leakage through the rivet holes, and if you do, you have that fine deck port to reach in and sponge anything out.

We also squirt a small dab of sealant into the rivet barrel after the mandrel has popped. Speaking of the mandrel popping, we suggest putting a soft towel down around the work area, the rivet gun has a tendency to buck when the mandrel snaps, and the head of the gun can fall down and scratch your beautifully painted deck.

Scout coaming rivet.jpg
 
Here's how SCOUT turned out, Tex Hill's number on the side.


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PS We need a sail rig for her. Anyone got a lead on the sailing rig for a Grumman 17? Gunter rig, leeboards and rudder?
 
Yes, I learned the hard way about the kickback on the rivet gun. I put a small scratch in the paint when I was reinstalling the aluminum trim. Doh!
I had a few choice words, but I’m over it. I’ll be sure to cover my work area in the future, though!
Thanks, all, for the tips and reassurance.
 
Here's how SCOUT turned out, Tex Hill's number on the side.
PS We need a sail rig for her. Anyone got a lead on the sailing rig for a Grumman 17? Gunter rig, leeboards and rudder?
I'll look around. The original rig looked like this one:

Bob with graduation present canoe 1960+-001.jpg

But what I (might) have in our crawl space was for a sailing kayak. (Which should also work, but a gunter-rig would be the cat's meow).

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Not in the right spots, but most of the parts are there. This one is for sale in Pedricktown, NJ. Anyone want to buy the canoe and sell us the rig for $300? It's listed on FB marketplace.

Grumman 17 sail rig.jpg
 
Three-hundred bucks (just) for a 17-foot Grumman canoe isn't a bad price. :)

The Grumman sailing canoe kit's mast assembly should include a square plate that bolts to a mating keel point—plus the upper (squarish-extrusion) piece. :cool: Don't leave there without them! :eek:

Using 1"x 2" dimensional wood, I bolted-up a better arrangement for the rudder assembly. Grumman never made any junk, but I still have no idea how the rudder was to be controlled using those stupid lines. :mad:

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Signal Charlie, What is the correct rivet size and material for the coaming? I just ordered new ones from Sunfish Direct- what a rip off. There are 13 holes in the coaming. They sell a package of 12 rivets. $8 for the rivets and $9.95 for shipping. APS is the same price and shipping, but at least they give you 13! Too bad I had already ordered. Neither company says what size they are. The rivets I ordered previously-says for Sunfish coaming- don’t work. It is very hard to compress the handle on the gun and the rivet shank isn’t breaking off. With adhesive on the coaming and 3 rivets sticking straight up I ran to the hardware store and bought a better rivet gun. Still not working. I think the rivets are aluminum, but there is no info on any site and they came in an unmarked ziplock bag.
Wow, this little project is taking way too much time and money. I had no trouble with the rivets for the aluminum trim, but they were much smaller. The deck holes for the coaming were filled and redrilled to 3/16.
Thanks in advance from a frustrated gal.
 
Hi BB
I'd call Sunfish Direct, I've chatted and emailed with them and I know they can do better than that. Sounds like an "Oops" to me. Now that said, Learning Lesson for me was to order two packs and have spares, somethimes a rivet mandrel snaps early and I have to drill it out to put in another, so best to have spares, just like buying extra washers and stopnuts when putting in inspection ports, I only needed to loose a stopnut once inside the hull to learn that.

If you know the barrel is compressed and the rivet is tight, but the shank doesn't break, rock the gun gently side to side and the shank will break eventually. Use a small file to remove any burrs, all coaming and trim rivets should be checked for that.

If rivets appear to be stainless vs aluminum, throw them away. Aluminum looks dull with a brushed finish, stainless are shiny bright, almost chrome finish. They are near impossible to remove, and they cause mighty dissimilar metal corrosion when used on the aluminum trim. I have not so silently cursed strangers who did that to our poor resto boats :/

The handle is hard to hard to squeeze, a 2 handed affair.

Since we do a lot of boats I researched the size and bought a pack of 50 from The Rivet Gallery, you have enough boats that you might invest in that.

Splashguard coaming rivet.jpg


We need a picture of work in progress to properly assess the situation. And it helps to know the boat's name :)
 
Hi BB
I'd call Sunfish Direct, I've chatted and emailed with them and I know they can do better than that. Sounds like an "Oops" to me. Now that said, Learning Lesson for me was to order two packs and have spares, somethimes a rivet mandrel snaps early and I have to drill it out to put in another, so best to have spares, just like buying extra washers and stopnuts when putting in inspection ports, I only needed to loose a stopnut once inside the hull to learn that.

If you know the barrel is compressed and the rivet is tight, but the shank doesn't break, rock the gun gently side to side and the shank will break eventually. Use a small file to remove any burrs, all coaming and trim rivets should be checked for that.

If rivets appear to be stainless vs aluminum, throw them away. Aluminum looks dull with a brushed finish, stainless are shiny bright, almost chrome finish. They are near impossible to remove, and they cause mighty dissimilar metal corrosion when used on the aluminum trim. I have not so silently cursed strangers who did that to our poor resto boats :/

The handle is hard to hard to squeeze, a 2 handed affair.

Since we do a lot of boats I researched the size and bought a pack of 50 from The Rivet Gallery, you have enough boats that you might invest in that.

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We need a picture of work in progress to properly assess the situation. And it helps to know the boat's name :)
Wow, impressed with your speedy reply to a restorer in need! I think the rivets I tried must be stainless. Next to the aluminum trim rivets I have they look shiny. The pic shows first the coaming rivet I tried, then the partially expanded barrel (with sealant on it) of same rivets, then comparison of material with the known aluminum rivet for trim. Even with two hands, a new gun, rocking, and all my strength I could not ‘pop’ the rivets. I imagine stainless rivets are harder to cut (?) but don’t know why they don’t cut at all!
I will call Sunfish Direct tomorrow and ask if they can throw in an add’l rivet! In the future, should I ever need to remove a splashguard again, I’ll order from good ‘ole McMaster Carr. Thank you for the sizing- it’s a well-kept Sunfish secret! I sure appreciate you being there with your always great advice.
P.S. Earlier in this thread, before the boat was painted, I posted pics of the spots of paint removed by a power washer (per previous owner). Someone said I should name the boat Spot. I painted the boat and the name is Spot On. :)
 

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I like the touch up paint idea as well, we use a paint cup to spray out a bit of paint into a puddle, then use a cheapo art brush like the ones that came with the kiddos watercolor sets. We grade our paint jobs on the Foot Rule as well, like how close can you get before you can tell it is painted. MERCI was about a "3" other than the fact that Sunfish never came in this Army Air Corps paint scheme.

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Another idea is to give a constellation name to each grouping of spots, add a few points of light if needed, one of them is almost Ursa Major.

Last idea, name the boat SPOT. And if you decide to paint, lots of knowledge here in the group about tips and tactics to get a nice finish.

She's a beautiful boat and we are glad to see you restoring her!

Cheers
Kent and Audrey

PS Pressure washing can peel off gelcoat as well, so be careful out there sports fans, unless you are already planning a complete sand/fair/prime/paint on a derelict hull (insert MERCI car wash photo here...)

MERCI's Log

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It was you, SC, who suggested the name Spot prior to painting!
 
Hey BB

Those rivets in the bag marked Splashguard look to be stainless and they are NOT closed end. They gave you the wrong rivets. I would ask for the correct rivets or request a refund.

We enjoy sharing out tales and appreciate the info we have received from the other Gurus out there, everyone has their way and we learn a lot from the text and photos.

SPOT ON is an awesome name!

Another tip for you, we bought a High Thrust caulk gun to dispense thicker materials like adhesives or thickened epoxies. Normal Home Depot/Lowes caulk guns have an 8:1 ratio, the High Thrust guns are 18:1. It made dispensing THIXO a breeze! Who knew? Not us, but now we do. I wonder if there is something similar for rivet guns? Our Newborn Model 250 caulk gun came from Jamestown Distributors, and we wrote an article on it for Small Boats Monthly.
 

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Stainless rivets are much harder to pop and cheap rivet guns usually aren't up to the task. Stainless rivets will "feel" heavier where aluminum pop much easier and feel "very light" in weight. If you don't have both to compare weights it can be tough, but the two side by side, no mistaking.
 
Thank you for the clarification on the rivets. I will contact the company tomorrow. You read my mind. I used TotalBoat Seal under the coaming.
After this rivet issue is worked out I will want to run a nice, clean bead of sealant around the edges. I don’t feel like I have enough control with the TotalBoat Seal for a nice edge, even after taping and putting it into a syringe I hesitate to try it. I’m sure I need more practice, and maybe a suggestion for a different sealant for running a smooth bead, but a good caulk gun may definitely be in order You’re right- who knew? Not me!
 
We don't seal around the splashgiard. I've picked up boats that have the sealant around the splashguard, usually a mess to clean and they get grungy looking. Do you find that you get a lot of leaks up there? If so, you might want to explore butyl tape, you could lay a strip of that underneath the coaming, oops, your coaming is already on...maybe someone else will try it and report back.

Sailrite - Fabric, Canvas, and Sewing Machines Since 1969
 
No, can’t say I get a lot of leaks, and only removed the splashguard to paint. I won’t do that again!
I love butyl tape for many applications. It would have worked under the splashguard but I had the TotalBoat. Unfortunately, some of the sealant shows where it oozed from the back of the splashguard. You see it if you look underneath, and it’s enough to bug me. A bead of sealant around the back would clean that up.
 

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Once cured, TotalSeal is sandable and paintable. You probably know, sometimes you can trim that with an xacto, and it might peel without taking the paint with it. Be curious to see how you tackle it.

Gratuitous boat pic follows...Herreshoff built the hull...

NC 4 beached.jpg
 
Once cured, TotalSeal is sandable and paintable. You probably know, sometimes you can trim that with an xacto, and it might peel without taking the paint with it. Be curious to see how you tackle it. Gratuitous boat pic follows...Herreshoff built the hull...
Three of these were to fly across the Atlantic—quoting:
"NC-3 landed 200 miles from the nearest island and was forced to sail itself to port, surviving 30- to 40-foot waves and gale-force winds. Through the challenges, though, all crew members made it to the end of the journey safely..."
https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Media/N...ary-of-historical-flight-of-founding-fathers/

Stainless rivets are much harder to pop and cheap rivet guns usually aren't up to the task. Stainless rivets will "feel" heavier where aluminum pop much easier and feel "very light" in weight. If you don't have both to compare weights it can be tough, but the two side by side, no mistaking.
Stainless pop-rivets appear as a polished silver color, while aluminum appears as a brushed-grey color. In weight, they feel different in the hand—especially a full box. :oops:

Now that I'm thinking about it, pop-rivets might not have as much grip (for the splashguard) as sheet metal screws, and stainless screws would be much easier to install—and appear polished—to boot!

How tough is TotalSeal? Could one "saw" at it with a plastic comb, to remove it—and not hurt the paint?

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L&VW said: “Now that I'm thinking about it, pop-rivets might not have as much grip (for the splashguard) as sheet metal screws”
The problem, stated earlier, is that I can only reach 6 of the 13 holes for putting nuts on the back of those SS screws. The others would give no support and would leak. A rivnut gun is too expensive. Thus, rivets seemed the best solution.
 
Rivets are the factory solution, much easier to deal with than the rivnuts and machine screws, especially in our salt water environment. We did invest in the rivnut gun and rivnuts, for the few boats we come across that only need a few rivnuts repaired. If you thought the rivets were hard to pull, try rivnuts!


Wave rivnut barrels.jpg
 
Yes, my splashguard problems were (are) different :oops: as one might expect with second-hand Sunfish. :(

The red splashguard was torn off on one side, leaving large holes: the white splashguard ripped-off, and bonded with Liquid Nails, which had to be chipped away :mad: then sanded flat.

My solution to the latter (white) was to move the splashguard a ¼-inch aft, drill new holes—then snug down using stainless sheet-metal screws. (Which require no nuts). I probably should have used sealant, but I was returning my borrowed Sunfish back to my neighbor. (Which, after Hurricane Irma removed both aft "corners", he donated to me :rolleyes: ). But :) the splashguard stayed strong—even after the Sunfish was thrown around the neighborhood. :eek:

I have yet to tackle the red one, but pre-formed fiberglass pieces will be epoxied under those gaping holes—drilled—then use matched-heads of sheet-metal screws of stainless manufacture. Apparently not its first "rip" around the block, I give you the former:

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The latter:

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“—then snug down using stainless sheet-metal screws. (Which require no nuts).“

No rivnuts, no backer nuts, no rivets...And no sealant on your screws and you didn’t have a leaky splashguard?
 
Oh, ;) I've got some leaks. :(

Note the water level on my newly-acquired and newly-moved unloaded vessel: :eek:

PA140008.JPG
 
“Once cured, TotalSeal is sandable and paintable. You probably know, sometimes you can trim that with an xacto, and it might peel without taking the paint with it. Be curious to see how you tackle it.”

I used a Testors hobby knife and the TotalSeal was rubbery, so I was able to lift it and roll it on itself, using the knife to pry it up. Absolutely no harm to the paint, and although tedious, I was able to fix the problem- see before and after:
 

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I'd call Sunfish Direct, I've chatted and emailed with them and I know they can do better than that. Sounds like an "Oops" to me. Now that said, Learning Lesson for me was to order two packs and have spares, somethimes a rivet mandrel snaps early and I have to drill it out to put in another, so best to have spares, just like buying extra washers and stopnuts when putting in inspection ports, I only needed to loose a stopnut once inside the hull to learn that.

Update:
 
I called Sunfish Direct (now Discount Marine) and Brian Willis was more than helpful. He included 4 extra rivets, saying, as you did SC, that a few extras are good insurance.
Confirmed: I was using the wrong rivets- mine were stainless with the wrong end. Though the same Sunfish part number was listed on the bag.

I put towels all around in prep for the ‘kickback’ from the rivet gun, not wanting to scratch my new paint. It wasn’t easy for me, generally took 5-6 contractions of the handle, two hands, slowly rocking and leaning into it a bit, slightly changing position. Fortunately all the rivets went in without a scratch and the splashguard and boat are finally complete.
Just listed on craigslist and trying Facebook marketplace for the first time. I have waaay too many boats right now so it’s time to sell!
 

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Once cured, TotalSeal is sandable and paintable. You probably know, sometimes you can trim that with an xacto, and it might peel without taking the paint with it. Be curious to see how you tackle it.
My soon-to-be-for-sale Sunfish needed its splashguard (re)painted blue—plus its fractures and blemishes refurbished.

When all was completed, I gamely loosed all the stainless sheet metal screws. (This was to lift the entire splashguard a tiny bit, and not to lose whatever was holding the screws). In turn, this would allow the sliding of one layer of newspaper underneath—to mask the new blue spray-paint from the existing white deck paint.

Sooo...I loosened all the screws and gently lifted. And nothing moved! :confused: Maybe there's some two-sided tape underneath, but an extra step was required to use masking tape instead. :mad:

I'm of the opinion that the splashguard is best attached with sheet metal screws, and that sealing is unnecessary. It would be an insignificant amount of water that would leak past the screws (or even to pass under the splashguard).

Consider this relatively "weak" splashguard attachment technique can reduce deck damage due to the "traumatic misadventure" of having the splashguard totally ripped off. :eek: (Like what Hurricane Irma did to my neighbor's Sunfish, which he then gave to me).

When the time comes to paint it, the splashguard can be left in place, merely loosened, and be readily masked for a new coat of paint—or to change the color.
 
:oops: I forgot to mention the red splashguard was repaired this September. I used short pieces of old fiberglass patches of about four "cloth" layers each—epoxied them underneath, drilled ⅛-inch holes, then screwed sheet-metal screws through the patches.

You may recall the video showing this red splashguard flexing up and down (about 1½-inches) :eek:in a light wind. So...there is some strength added to the deck with the splashguard in place.

As Signal Charlie mentioned, leaks along the edges (amidship) can be traced to a missing splashguard. (Although my borrowed Sunfish—donated to me (with missing "corners") since Hurricane Irma—sailed just fine while temporarily missing its splashguard).

(Splashguard also rendered as coaming). :rolleyes:
 
Don't ever put sheet metal screws into fiberglass without a wood backing plate. In
fact it's best never to mix fiberglass and sheet metal screws. The splash guard is
pop rivets OR rivnuts and machine screws. I think it was 10-24 or 10-32 machine
screws, I forgot. The factory put a strip of sealant on the bottom so that's what
is most likely holding up the show.
 
The red splash guard was held on by (13) size 12x1" sheet metal screws. No wood backing present, although the wood could have fallen away in the 50 years this ex-racer's been around. ;)

The blue splash guard was held on by (13) 8x1" sheet metal screws. (There's no inspection port to check on length, and don't want to unnecessarily add one). Whatever is back there, it's still functioning as a backing plate. To measure the length of 1", I was able to remove and re-install the existing screw.

My 1972 Sunfish white splashguard was held on by (13) large rivets. (Not tested, but aluminum in appearance).

My "borrowed" Sunfish, now a gift to me from my neighbor had a recently replaced splashguard, re-attached with Liquid Nails and screws. :mad:

I'm still holding onto the opinion that the splashguard Is best left without caulk, and held on by the minimum of attachments, should it be "traumatically evulsed".

And I wish I'd never read those last two words (in medicine). :eek:

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