Power Washer damage

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#41
Here's how SCOUT turned out, Tex Hill's number on the side.


IMG_7202.jpg

IMG_7203.jpg

PS We need a sail rig for her. Anyone got a lead on the sailing rig for a Grumman 17? Gunter rig, leeboards and rudder?
 
Thread starter #42
Yes, I learned the hard way about the kickback on the rivet gun. I put a small scratch in the paint when I was reinstalling the aluminum trim. Doh!
I had a few choice words, but I’m over it. I’ll be sure to cover my work area in the future, though!
Thanks, all, for the tips and reassurance.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#43
Here's how SCOUT turned out, Tex Hill's number on the side.
PS We need a sail rig for her. Anyone got a lead on the sailing rig for a Grumman 17? Gunter rig, leeboards and rudder?
I'll look around. The original rig looked like this one:

Bob with graduation present canoe 1960+-001.jpg
But what I (might) have in our crawl space was for a sailing kayak. (Which should also work, but a gunter-rig would be the cat's meow).

.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#45
Three-hundred bucks (just) for a 17-foot Grumman canoe isn't a bad price. :)

The Grumman sailing canoe kit's mast assembly should include a square plate that bolts to a mating keel point—plus the upper (squarish-extrusion) piece. :cool: Don't leave there without them! :eek:

Using 1"x 2" dimensional wood, I bolted-up a better arrangement for the rudder assembly. Grumman never made any junk, but I still have no idea how the rudder was to be controlled using those stupid lines. :mad:

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Thread starter #46
Signal Charlie, What is the correct rivet size and material for the coaming? I just ordered new ones from Sunfish Direct- what a rip off. There are 13 holes in the coaming. They sell a package of 12 rivets. $8 for the rivets and $9.95 for shipping. APS is the same price and shipping, but at least they give you 13! Too bad I had already ordered. Neither company says what size they are. The rivets I ordered previously-says for Sunfish coaming- don’t work. It is very hard to compress the handle on the gun and the rivet shank isn’t breaking off. With adhesive on the coaming and 3 rivets sticking straight up I ran to the hardware store and bought a better rivet gun. Still not working. I think the rivets are aluminum, but there is no info on any site and they came in an unmarked ziplock bag.
Wow, this little project is taking way too much time and money. I had no trouble with the rivets for the aluminum trim, but they were much smaller. The deck holes for the coaming were filled and redrilled to 3/16.
Thanks in advance from a frustrated gal.
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#47
Hi BB
I'd call Sunfish Direct, I've chatted and emailed with them and I know they can do better than that. Sounds like an "Oops" to me. Now that said, Learning Lesson for me was to order two packs and have spares, somethimes a rivet mandrel snaps early and I have to drill it out to put in another, so best to have spares, just like buying extra washers and stopnuts when putting in inspection ports, I only needed to loose a stopnut once inside the hull to learn that.

If you know the barrel is compressed and the rivet is tight, but the shank doesn't break, rock the gun gently side to side and the shank will break eventually. Use a small file to remove any burrs, all coaming and trim rivets should be checked for that.

If rivets appear to be stainless vs aluminum, throw them away. Aluminum looks dull with a brushed finish, stainless are shiny bright, almost chrome finish. They are near impossible to remove, and they cause mighty dissimilar metal corrosion when used on the aluminum trim. I have not so silently cursed strangers who did that to our poor resto boats :/

The handle is hard to hard to squeeze, a 2 handed affair.

Since we do a lot of boats I researched the size and bought a pack of 50 from The Rivet Gallery, you have enough boats that you might invest in that.

Splashguard coaming rivet.jpg

We need a picture of work in progress to properly assess the situation. And it helps to know the boat's name :)
 
Thread starter #48
Hi BB
I'd call Sunfish Direct, I've chatted and emailed with them and I know they can do better than that. Sounds like an "Oops" to me. Now that said, Learning Lesson for me was to order two packs and have spares, somethimes a rivet mandrel snaps early and I have to drill it out to put in another, so best to have spares, just like buying extra washers and stopnuts when putting in inspection ports, I only needed to loose a stopnut once inside the hull to learn that.

If you know the barrel is compressed and the rivet is tight, but the shank doesn't break, rock the gun gently side to side and the shank will break eventually. Use a small file to remove any burrs, all coaming and trim rivets should be checked for that.

If rivets appear to be stainless vs aluminum, throw them away. Aluminum looks dull with a brushed finish, stainless are shiny bright, almost chrome finish. They are near impossible to remove, and they cause mighty dissimilar metal corrosion when used on the aluminum trim. I have not so silently cursed strangers who did that to our poor resto boats :/

The handle is hard to hard to squeeze, a 2 handed affair.

Since we do a lot of boats I researched the size and bought a pack of 50 from The Rivet Gallery, you have enough boats that you might invest in that.

View attachment 32065

We need a picture of work in progress to properly assess the situation. And it helps to know the boat's name :)
Wow, impressed with your speedy reply to a restorer in need! I think the rivets I tried must be stainless. Next to the aluminum trim rivets I have they look shiny. The pic shows first the coaming rivet I tried, then the partially expanded barrel (with sealant on it) of same rivets, then comparison of material with the known aluminum rivet for trim. Even with two hands, a new gun, rocking, and all my strength I could not ‘pop’ the rivets. I imagine stainless rivets are harder to cut (?) but don’t know why they don’t cut at all!
I will call Sunfish Direct tomorrow and ask if they can throw in an add’l rivet! In the future, should I ever need to remove a splashguard again, I’ll order from good ‘ole McMaster Carr. Thank you for the sizing- it’s a well-kept Sunfish secret! I sure appreciate you being there with your always great advice.
P.S. Earlier in this thread, before the boat was painted, I posted pics of the spots of paint removed by a power washer (per previous owner). Someone said I should name the boat Spot. I painted the boat and the name is Spot On. :)
 

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Thread starter #49
I like the touch up paint idea as well, we use a paint cup to spray out a bit of paint into a puddle, then use a cheapo art brush like the ones that came with the kiddos watercolor sets. We grade our paint jobs on the Foot Rule as well, like how close can you get before you can tell it is painted. MERCI was about a "3" other than the fact that Sunfish never came in this Army Air Corps paint scheme.







Another idea is to give a constellation name to each grouping of spots, add a few points of light if needed, one of them is almost Ursa Major.

Last idea, name the boat SPOT. And if you decide to paint, lots of knowledge here in the group about tips and tactics to get a nice finish.

She's a beautiful boat and we are glad to see you restoring her!

Cheers
Kent and Audrey

PS Pressure washing can peel off gelcoat as well, so be careful out there sports fans, unless you are already planning a complete sand/fair/prime/paint on a derelict hull (insert MERCI car wash photo here...)

MERCI's Log

It was you, SC, who suggested the name Spot prior to painting!
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#50
Hey BB

Those rivets in the bag marked Splashguard look to be stainless and they are NOT closed end. They gave you the wrong rivets. I would ask for the correct rivets or request a refund.

We enjoy sharing out tales and appreciate the info we have received from the other Gurus out there, everyone has their way and we learn a lot from the text and photos.

SPOT ON is an awesome name!

Another tip for you, we bought a High Thrust caulk gun to dispense thicker materials like adhesives or thickened epoxies. Normal Home Depot/Lowes caulk guns have an 8:1 ratio, the High Thrust guns are 18:1. It made dispensing THIXO a breeze! Who knew? Not us, but now we do. I wonder if there is something similar for rivet guns? Our Newborn Model 250 caulk gun came from Jamestown Distributors, and we wrote an article on it for Small Boats Monthly.
 

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mixmkr

Active Member
#51
Stainless rivets are much harder to pop and cheap rivet guns usually aren't up to the task. Stainless rivets will "feel" heavier where aluminum pop much easier and feel "very light" in weight. If you don't have both to compare weights it can be tough, but the two side by side, no mistaking.
 
Thread starter #52
Thank you for the clarification on the rivets. I will contact the company tomorrow. You read my mind. I used TotalBoat Seal under the coaming.
After this rivet issue is worked out I will want to run a nice, clean bead of sealant around the edges. I don’t feel like I have enough control with the TotalBoat Seal for a nice edge, even after taping and putting it into a syringe I hesitate to try it. I’m sure I need more practice, and maybe a suggestion for a different sealant for running a smooth bead, but a good caulk gun may definitely be in order You’re right- who knew? Not me!
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#53
We don't seal around the splashgiard. I've picked up boats that have the sealant around the splashguard, usually a mess to clean and they get grungy looking. Do you find that you get a lot of leaks up there? If so, you might want to explore butyl tape, you could lay a strip of that underneath the coaming, oops, your coaming is already on...maybe someone else will try it and report back.

Sailrite - Fabric, Canvas, and Sewing Machines Since 1969
 
Thread starter #54
No, can’t say I get a lot of leaks, and only removed the splashguard to paint. I won’t do that again!
I love butyl tape for many applications. It would have worked under the splashguard but I had the TotalBoat. Unfortunately, some of the sealant shows where it oozed from the back of the splashguard. You see it if you look underneath, and it’s enough to bug me. A bead of sealant around the back would clean that up.
 

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signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#55
Once cured, TotalSeal is sandable and paintable. You probably know, sometimes you can trim that with an xacto, and it might peel without taking the paint with it. Be curious to see how you tackle it.

Gratuitous boat pic follows...Herreshoff built the hull...

NC 4 beached.jpg
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#56
Once cured, TotalSeal is sandable and paintable. You probably know, sometimes you can trim that with an xacto, and it might peel without taking the paint with it. Be curious to see how you tackle it. Gratuitous boat pic follows...Herreshoff built the hull...
Three of these were to fly across the Atlantic—quoting:
"NC-3 landed 200 miles from the nearest island and was forced to sail itself to port, surviving 30- to 40-foot waves and gale-force winds. Through the challenges, though, all crew members made it to the end of the journey safely..."
https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Media/N...ary-of-historical-flight-of-founding-fathers/

Stainless rivets are much harder to pop and cheap rivet guns usually aren't up to the task. Stainless rivets will "feel" heavier where aluminum pop much easier and feel "very light" in weight. If you don't have both to compare weights it can be tough, but the two side by side, no mistaking.
Stainless pop-rivets appear as a polished silver color, while aluminum appears as a brushed-grey color. In weight, they feel different in the hand—especially a full box. :oops:

Now that I'm thinking about it, pop-rivets might not have as much grip (for the splashguard) as sheet metal screws, and stainless screws would be much easier to install—and appear polished—to boot!

How tough is TotalSeal? Could one "saw" at it with a plastic comb, to remove it—and not hurt the paint?

.
 
Thread starter #57
L&VW said: “Now that I'm thinking about it, pop-rivets might not have as much grip (for the splashguard) as sheet metal screws”
The problem, stated earlier, is that I can only reach 6 of the 13 holes for putting nuts on the back of those SS screws. The others would give no support and would leak. A rivnut gun is too expensive. Thus, rivets seemed the best solution.
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#58
Rivets are the factory solution, much easier to deal with than the rivnuts and machine screws, especially in our salt water environment. We did invest in the rivnut gun and rivnuts, for the few boats we come across that only need a few rivnuts repaired. If you thought the rivets were hard to pull, try rivnuts!


Wave rivnut barrels.jpg
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#59
Yes, my splashguard problems were (are) different :oops: as one might expect with second-hand Sunfish. :(

The red splashguard was torn off on one side, leaving large holes: the white splashguard ripped-off, and bonded with Liquid Nails, which had to be chipped away :mad: then sanded flat.

My solution to the latter (white) was to move the splashguard a ¼-inch aft, drill new holes—then snug down using stainless sheet-metal screws. (Which require no nuts). I probably should have used sealant, but I was returning my borrowed Sunfish back to my neighbor. (Which, after Hurricane Irma removed both aft "corners", he donated to me :rolleyes: ). But :) the splashguard stayed strong—even after the Sunfish was thrown around the neighborhood. :eek:

I have yet to tackle the red one, but pre-formed fiberglass pieces will be epoxied under those gaping holes—drilled—then use matched-heads of sheet-metal screws of stainless manufacture. Apparently not its first "rip" around the block, I give you the former:

P8080070.JPG
The latter:

PA170010.JPG
 
Thread starter #60
“—then snug down using stainless sheet-metal screws. (Which require no nuts).“

No rivnuts, no backer nuts, no rivets...And no sealant on your screws and you didn’t have a leaky splashguard?
 
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