I have read the other threads on pointing in this forum, but I still need advice when it comes to sailing up wind. My problem is this; no matter who I sail with durring the race or who I tune with before, I can never point as high and it is becoming a real problem. When I tune with someone our controlls are on the same (and two-blocked) and we are sailing in the same air (10-15), but my sail still luffs and I still loose a few degrees. Could this be my 16 year old spars or am I overlooking something fairly simple? Furhtermore, what part does the vang play in pointing and upwind boatspeed?Thanks. Dan
pointing
- Thread starter lyclaser
- Start date
Yes, the traveler is important, but, from what I see too often it is because of too much cunningham.
I often see sailors grabbing handfulls of cunningham, dragging the chord of the sail all the forward to the mast in an effort to de-power. This may work to de-power the sail but it kills the ability of the laser to point.
Judicious use of the cunningham and carefully balancing the power in the sail using all of the controls 'in harmony' should help you to sail high, flat and fast!
Hope this helps.
I often see sailors grabbing handfulls of cunningham, dragging the chord of the sail all the forward to the mast in an effort to de-power. This may work to de-power the sail but it kills the ability of the laser to point.
Judicious use of the cunningham and carefully balancing the power in the sail using all of the controls 'in harmony' should help you to sail high, flat and fast!
Hope this helps.
To demonstrate the effect of the cunningham on the sail, a wise old friend of mine showed me this when I was just getting into my Laser some time ago.
Next time you are rigging up on the beach, try this:
On a day with a gentle breeze, turn your boat so in relation to the wind the angles would be the same as if you are beating upwind. Do not sheet in too much, else you will sail along in the rigging area, and despite the comic value of this, it does little for your boat! Just take up the slack in the vang.
Now, this next bit is best demonstated with tell-tales on your sails, and you could add more streamers for this experiment and remove them afterwards. With the mast straight, and the sail set, SLOWLY pull on the cunningham and watch for two effects. Note: dont yank the cunningham-eye down to the boom, or haul-in until the sail is massively stretched down the mast - be gentle to see these effects better.
Firstly, you will notice the draft of the sail, the point where the chord is the deepest, is moving forward. If this is happening, then of course the sail abaft the draft must be getting flatter. Its effect is most noticeable on the middle third of the sail (from top to bottom). This is the first of the two parts how the cunningham depowers the rig. To flatten the sail, the draft is pulled forward. Now let the cunningham off for the next part of the experiment.
The second effect is to disturb the flow of air across the sail. Again with the sail just set and the mast straight, SLOWLY pull on the cunningham, but this time watch the tell tales, particularly those on the leeward side in the forward third of the sail. As the draft is pulled forward, the leading part of the sail becomes more 'rounded' and as we all know round shapes are not as aerodynamic as foil shapes. With the draft pulled forward, and the leading edge more round, the wind will spill or eddy sooner along the back of the sail, and this will be noticeable by the leeward telltales now fluttering when before the cunningham was pulled on they were flying. By making the sail less aerodynamically efficient, it is depowered.
To see the effect on the pointing ability, with the cunningham on and the mast straight, turn the bow SLOWLY away from the wind and see how much the boat has to be turned before the forward-leeward tell-tales start streaming again. This angle is how much pointing ability is lost because of the cunningham. Note: do this slowly as it is only going to be a few degrees, but as we all know every little bit helps on the water. Losing some pointing ability with the cunningham on makes sense, as to have a clean entry to the sail the sail with the draft pulled forward the wind will have to come an angle abaft the angle when the draft is further aft.
Note: the cunningham is only one of the four sail controls available, and when combined they have the ability to dramatically alter the shape of the sail. In combination with the vang, outhaul and mainsheet, it is possible to maintain pointing ability in a depowered rig, but my details above are only to show the effects of the cunningham, alone.
I suppose the next part of the experiment is to demonstrate the effects of changing the order in which the sail controls are applied, but I will leave that for another time, if anyone is interested in my ideas.
Hope this helps.
Next time you are rigging up on the beach, try this:
On a day with a gentle breeze, turn your boat so in relation to the wind the angles would be the same as if you are beating upwind. Do not sheet in too much, else you will sail along in the rigging area, and despite the comic value of this, it does little for your boat! Just take up the slack in the vang.
Now, this next bit is best demonstated with tell-tales on your sails, and you could add more streamers for this experiment and remove them afterwards. With the mast straight, and the sail set, SLOWLY pull on the cunningham and watch for two effects. Note: dont yank the cunningham-eye down to the boom, or haul-in until the sail is massively stretched down the mast - be gentle to see these effects better.
Firstly, you will notice the draft of the sail, the point where the chord is the deepest, is moving forward. If this is happening, then of course the sail abaft the draft must be getting flatter. Its effect is most noticeable on the middle third of the sail (from top to bottom). This is the first of the two parts how the cunningham depowers the rig. To flatten the sail, the draft is pulled forward. Now let the cunningham off for the next part of the experiment.
The second effect is to disturb the flow of air across the sail. Again with the sail just set and the mast straight, SLOWLY pull on the cunningham, but this time watch the tell tales, particularly those on the leeward side in the forward third of the sail. As the draft is pulled forward, the leading part of the sail becomes more 'rounded' and as we all know round shapes are not as aerodynamic as foil shapes. With the draft pulled forward, and the leading edge more round, the wind will spill or eddy sooner along the back of the sail, and this will be noticeable by the leeward telltales now fluttering when before the cunningham was pulled on they were flying. By making the sail less aerodynamically efficient, it is depowered.
To see the effect on the pointing ability, with the cunningham on and the mast straight, turn the bow SLOWLY away from the wind and see how much the boat has to be turned before the forward-leeward tell-tales start streaming again. This angle is how much pointing ability is lost because of the cunningham. Note: do this slowly as it is only going to be a few degrees, but as we all know every little bit helps on the water. Losing some pointing ability with the cunningham on makes sense, as to have a clean entry to the sail the sail with the draft pulled forward the wind will have to come an angle abaft the angle when the draft is further aft.
Note: the cunningham is only one of the four sail controls available, and when combined they have the ability to dramatically alter the shape of the sail. In combination with the vang, outhaul and mainsheet, it is possible to maintain pointing ability in a depowered rig, but my details above are only to show the effects of the cunningham, alone.
I suppose the next part of the experiment is to demonstrate the effects of changing the order in which the sail controls are applied, but I will leave that for another time, if anyone is interested in my ideas.
Hope this helps.
jsmith4265
New Member
What about weight? With all controls set equally, can a lighter sailor point higher than a heavier one?
Jeff
Jeff
49208
Tentmaker
Go thru the variables
First thing I would do is switch boats. Quickly confirm it's the boat/sail and not you.
If it's the boat/rig/blades swap those - I'd start with the sail first.
The vang plays a very important role upwind. It can induce mast bend (flattening the sail) Visit the boat handling section on the drLaser website, there's lots of good info
First thing I would do is switch boats. Quickly confirm it's the boat/sail and not you.
If it's the boat/rig/blades swap those - I'd start with the sail first.
The vang plays a very important role upwind. It can induce mast bend (flattening the sail) Visit the boat handling section on the drLaser website, there's lots of good info
49208
Tentmaker
jsmith4265 said:
Yes, until the lighter sailor is overpowered.
The typical situation with lt vs hvy is that the heavier sailor is forced to power up by not two-blocking the mainsheet, little less outhaul etc., while the lighter sailor is able to sheet harder, go with more outhaul.
Once the lighter sailor is forced to de-power, either with more vang or cunningham, the hvy sailor will point as high or higher.
49208
Tentmaker
Regarding the cunningham as a sail control affecting pointing - besides moving draft location and changing the angle of attack of the sail, the bigger reason the cunningham affects pointing is that fact that pulling on cunningham is opening (twisting) the leech. With the leech twisted open, you depower the sail, but you are also losing pointing ability.