Class Politics Penalties before start
- Thread starter abenn
- Start date
abenn said:
Chris' answer is essentially correct unless your infraction was really serious. Here is the 'official' language
Rule 44.1: Taking a Penalty
A boat that may have broken a rule of Part 2 while racing may take a penalty at the time of the incident. Her penalty shall be a Two-Turns Penalty unless the sailing instructions specify the use of the Scoring Penalty or some other penalty. However, if she caused injury or serious damage or gained a significant advantage in the race or series by her breach her penalty shall be to retire.
gouvernail
Super Opinionated and Always Correct
The rules with respect to when you have to "accept the guilt and take the penalty" is almost always the same.
As soon as you can get out of the way and do turns, you are required to get about your business or the opportunity to perform your penalty goes away and you get a DSQ.
There have been appeals about this when sailors are near a mark and decide to round the mark and then do the turns. The decisions have been relatively clear. If you don't take the penalty just about instantly, you better be able to convince a jury you absolutely couldn't do turns right then.
You cannot wait because "Aw shucks. Doing turns right now would totally screw me."
You can wait becuase," If I even try to do turns right now I will probably hit ten boats and disrupt the race for everybody else."
But...While you are delaying your "doing the turns" you MUST be doing whatever is reasonable to get clear from those who are racing and get about your business, which is doing your turns so you can resume the race.
If getting out of the way NOW means letting your sails go and watching everybody pass on both sides, you must do that. IN fact, you must do WHATEVER you can to get out of everybody's way NOW and do your turns NOW.
So...In the case of the pre start foul?
You must get out of the way and do your 720 NOW.
You can wait until after the start if you are stuck between two or three boats and you simply cannot get out of the way.
Note: Can't really means CAN NOT. It does not mean, "AW crap. Everybody else is lining up for the start and if I let my sails go they will all go by."
You are not sailing within the rules if you sail up the course a ways and do your turns when you feel like it won't be so painful.
The exceptions to "right away" pertain to special rules found in NOR and sailing Instructions about taking a penalty after seeing an arbitrator rather than going to the room and receiving a DSQ.
When the penalty is accepted by flying a yellow flag, that yellow flag has to go up right away ...Just like the red flag has to go up right away.
Summary? 720 is a penalty. It is a soft version of "You broke a rule and you are out of the race." By accepting IMMEDIATELY that you screwed up and taking the penalty IMMEDIATELY you can avoid being tossed out altogether.
As soon as you can get out of the way and do turns, you are required to get about your business or the opportunity to perform your penalty goes away and you get a DSQ.
There have been appeals about this when sailors are near a mark and decide to round the mark and then do the turns. The decisions have been relatively clear. If you don't take the penalty just about instantly, you better be able to convince a jury you absolutely couldn't do turns right then.
You cannot wait because "Aw shucks. Doing turns right now would totally screw me."
You can wait becuase," If I even try to do turns right now I will probably hit ten boats and disrupt the race for everybody else."
But...While you are delaying your "doing the turns" you MUST be doing whatever is reasonable to get clear from those who are racing and get about your business, which is doing your turns so you can resume the race.
If getting out of the way NOW means letting your sails go and watching everybody pass on both sides, you must do that. IN fact, you must do WHATEVER you can to get out of everybody's way NOW and do your turns NOW.
So...In the case of the pre start foul?
You must get out of the way and do your 720 NOW.
You can wait until after the start if you are stuck between two or three boats and you simply cannot get out of the way.
Note: Can't really means CAN NOT. It does not mean, "AW crap. Everybody else is lining up for the start and if I let my sails go they will all go by."
You are not sailing within the rules if you sail up the course a ways and do your turns when you feel like it won't be so painful.
The exceptions to "right away" pertain to special rules found in NOR and sailing Instructions about taking a penalty after seeing an arbitrator rather than going to the room and receiving a DSQ.
When the penalty is accepted by flying a yellow flag, that yellow flag has to go up right away ...Just like the red flag has to go up right away.
Summary? 720 is a penalty. It is a soft version of "You broke a rule and you are out of the race." By accepting IMMEDIATELY that you screwed up and taking the penalty IMMEDIATELY you can avoid being tossed out altogether.
Thanks for the confirmation guys. I did exactly as was suggested - I immediately bore away, went to the pin end of the line well out of the way and did the 720, then lined up behind the other boats who were just starting and kept on racing. I lost about 20 m with having to do the turns.
My question was asked because a few other sailors suggested I should have waited until after the start. I guess there's a feeling that if you infringe well before the start, then there's hardly any penalty, as you can get the turns done then come back and hunt for a normal spot on the line, getting a normal start unless the line is really packed. Someone also thought that specifically in match racing the penalty has to be taken after the start.
The incident was pretty minor, I slightly bumped someone while I was manouvering backwards to get lined up but I felt I got in his way so no question about doing the turns.
My question was asked because a few other sailors suggested I should have waited until after the start. I guess there's a feeling that if you infringe well before the start, then there's hardly any penalty, as you can get the turns done then come back and hunt for a normal spot on the line, getting a normal start unless the line is really packed. Someone also thought that specifically in match racing the penalty has to be taken after the start.
The incident was pretty minor, I slightly bumped someone while I was manouvering backwards to get lined up but I felt I got in his way so no question about doing the turns.
49208
Tentmaker
Dave Perry's book, Understanding the Racing Rules has a nice explanation of the reasoning behind the rulemakers decision to allow the turns prior to starting. (The book has lots of good explanations and it sounds like some people in your fleet would benefit from reading it)