Outhaul

Radialater

New Member
For me, having a powerful outhaul is much more important than having a powerful cunningham, and I think I have a devised an 8:1 or 10:1 outhaul (i can't seem to figure out which.) However, I have a question, for turning points does the dead ending of a line at the outhaul fairlead count as a turning point? I don't think it does because the line is not moving through it.

My system:

You attach a double micro block to your clew, and a block to the outhaul fairlead. You start the line at the outhaul fairlead, lead it to the double block, back to the fairlead block, back to the double, back through the outhaul fairlead then lead that rope to about mid-boom and attach another block. You then start a rope at the mast lead it through the mid-boom block back to the mast block then down to the deck. By my count that is 6 turning points. And this incredibly powerful outhaul would be really easy to pull in even from a hiked position.

Any comments or questions?
 
This is an 8:1 system.

(To calculate the power ratio of a purchase, simply count the number of lines coming out of the mass being pulled/lifted. In this case, your "primary purchase" has a power ratio of 4:1. When the line is led through the fairlead back towards the mast, the turn through the fairlead does not provide any additional power. It merely changes the direction of the pull on the line.)

No, the dead-ending at the fairlead does not count as a "turning point". There is a specific Class Rule (Rule 3.a) that explicitly covers this. For a fitting around which a control line passes to be a "turning point", the line must be "moving" around that fitting.

You have 5 turning points, not 6. The rig is credibly powerfull, not "incredibly powerful". If the drLaser outhaul is rated as 8:1, yours is about 7.3:1 (taking into account the fairlead friction in your suggested rig).

The rig you suggest is exactly the "inferior solution" that the new 2003 Interpretations are attempting to force on us. This observation has been made elsewhere numerous times in criticizing the Interpretations.

Here, I qualified this rig as an "inferior solution" merely because it does not avoid the friction caused by the primary control line rubbing against the boom-end fairlead. (Use a polished Almag fairlead if you want to minimize friction.) Others have also spoken against such a rig because of the added weight/length a double-block requires at the boom end. Using a "double block" will not allow you to tighten the foot as much as you can with a "single" block at the clew. That's a major drawback in heavy air sailing. (That's why to achieve an 8:1 power ratio, the drLaser 2x2x2 solution or even a "4:1 cascade inside a 2:1 purchase" solution is better than your "2:1 cascade inside a 4:1 purchase" solution.)

Shevy
 
Question: the system is very similar to the current system for cunningham (the boxed kit), however that one is 10:1, where is the loss? That is why I was confused, because I also counted 8:1.

How do you lose the ability to tighten the foot? It's the same length, just deeper. Plus, I sail radial which you never want strapped anyways.


on a side note: How is Istanbul? very lucky to be in such a warm climate, it's a bit chilly up here in canada.
 
Also, the yellow shockcord in your diagram. How is that legal?

rule (f) vi states, "A shockcord may be attached between the outhaul cleat and the clew of the sail, the clew tie down, the the optional block at the clew, or the quick release system for use as an inhaul."

I must be missing something, because i know you're a stickler for the rules, even though you hate them.
 
May i suggest that you leave the turbo kit as it comes. having a powerful outhaul isn't the best idea, having more turning points means more rope, thus meaning more friction so the outhaul doesn't slide as well and the rope once wet weights alot so you have to weigh up ur options personally it is good to only have the 6:1 but in a cascading fashion.
 
the increase in friction would be minimal compared to the doubling of the theoretical mechanical advantage. When you think about that maximum travel in the outhaul say, it's a foot, and that's pretty liberal, with an 8:1 that would only be an extra 4 feet of line in the boat compared to a 4:1 system. Hardly anything to fret about.

Spectron12 does not get wet. And even if it did the weight would be minimal MAXIMUM a 1/2 kilo, and that estimate is ridiclous. And being able to adjust from full hike would more than outweight that disadvantage.

Personally, I never quite understood the whole more rope=bad argument.
 
OMFG r u stupid i have people at our club with 8:1 systems and they suck to much friction to much weight and the 6:1 is what every top laser sailor in the world runs. Seriously "Spectron12 doesn't get wet" what r u talking about all rope gets wet. the 8:1 system is stupid if it was worth it everyone would have it and if you can't pull some outhaul on with the 6:1 system when hiked out in 20knots with a radial sail you have some serious fitness problems, im 14 and i can pull it on in 20knots upwind.
 
Oh, it's nice to know that you're a very mature 14 year old. Spectron12 does not absorb water, and therefore would not gain any weight. I'm not denying that the worlds top sailors use 6:1, they may very well be. However, they are certainly also about 100x stronger than I am. Just a question, where do you think all this added friction is coming from? The only place where friction is really an issue is the outhaul fairlead, which all systems need to go through. So having the rope run through an extra block really won't cause any issues.

How about a response from someone who isn't an immature little 14 year old.
 
Shevy's point about how much extension you can get is the true limiting factor of designing an 'all block' system... you can cascade to add all the purchase you want but if you have a block at the clew and another at the fairlead, you won't have the clew fully stretched out when you are 'chock-a-block' (an old school term that = 'two-blocked' in laser-speak!). At the end of the day it's still a mystery to me why ILCA wants to force us to use the fairlead!
 
Now I don't want to be flamed for this, because I like to keep some decorum in these forums, but why does everyone care excessively about this fairlead. Sure it adds more friciton, but we're creative. Laser sailors have made the most ridiculous work-arounds in sailing. It's just another challenge. I hope somebody, can explain this outrage about to what seems to be a minor issue. And I have a feeling dr.laser will give his two cents. :p

And to restate a question from above, to drlaser or anyone. How is the bungee cord from the end of the boom to the secondary purchase system lega.?
 
Can't speak for everyone else, but I think the thing that offends me most is that I have to come up with a workaround because of the arbitrary and dogmatic insistance of the ILCA that we must use the fairlead. There is no doubt that it adds unnecessary friction and also no doubt that the better sailor would win the race even if you had a 'all block' outhaul....
 
Anybody ever heard of using Team Mclube on the fairlead,line(s), and boom? Just splash some on like the cheap aftershave you use before the Sat. dinner.
 
Yes, I do do that as it greatly reduces the friction between your clew tie down and the boom....and I can also back that the stuff isn't cheap either.
 
well Radialater i bet im a better sailor that you and i know what im talking about! even stewart casey thinks the 8:1 outhaul is gay!and im probly more mature than you because i actually listen to other people and their reasons
 
dont know if you can get it in the USA but theres a lubricant called INOX which is similar to WD-40 but lasts alot longer and is much cheaper than the mclube
 
Hears a new idea!

How about giving the "rules" the middle finger and sticking a block on that bloody fairlead and sailing whatever way you want. I am and I don't give a rats a$$.

If you get your boat checked out then who cares, change if for the regatta and then go right back to what you have. Nobody in here will race every regatta this summer where the whole boat is checked out, I garentee that. Maybe 1, 2 at most if your campaigning.

I'm going to have my boat like that the whole time, it's better and life is great, I'm not going to let a 70 year old man tell me what to do holding a book full of nonsense rigging rules.

But if you want my advice on the lubrication of the fairlead. the Mclube i guess works, but as soon as it hits water it's gone. My advice for you "go hard lubricants", buy yourself some extra bearing grease for trailers and before rigging up just dip your fingers into the tub and lace and lube the line with the grease very rich and a thin layer on the boom too, and clew tie down, it may stink but it is way better than waisting your money on mclube, plus if you burn out a bearing on the road, just go and grab it!
 
THat is to much mess, I will just use my trolling motor, and twelve volt battery, yeah screw the rules, who needs them anyway?

Keep your sissy block, it won't make you any faster and you will keep getting your butt handed to you by the same guys who hand it to you now, only worse since you won't be able to understand why you aren't faster with that cool little block on the end of the boom weighing it down, and making life sooooo much easier because you can add a little more tension than the next guy, who will be hiking harder because he knows that he doesn't have quite enough tension.
Good luck with your block, not.
G
 
all you people need to pull your panties out of your cracks and show a little kindness. Stick to the topic and stop being overly opinionated.

I prefer 10w30 that has been drained from my car to lube my mast....lol.
Dont forget to lube the entire bottom of the boat as well.

Later
Jim W.
Savannah, Ga.
 
Umm, Glenn I'm not sure what you mean by that but, I'm not saying "screw the rules." I'm only giving my opinion on the subject of the fairlead block, if someone wants to have a block on the fairlead (like myself) then so be it. If i didn't have a block out there and saw someone that was ahead of me with it i wouldn't say anything, since I DO know that the better sailor will win, they quote that in every Laser write up in the world.

But yes, it does help reduce friction a lot.
I do agree that the 2 blocks on the back is not a smart move.

I think it would be a good option to change the rule so you can have the block on either the sail or failead but have a maximum of only 1 block on the behind the sail.
 
> if someone wants to have a block on the fairlead
> (like myself) then so be it. ...

The current rule DOES allow (since 2001) a block at the fairlead!

Please read the rules (and the recent ILCA Interpretations) before talking about this at infinitum. The issue is not whether a block is allowed at the fairlead. The issue is whether the boom-end fairlead is REQUIRED as a separate "turning point" in the outhaul system.

The ILCA World Council has attempted twice (first drafting of the 2001 Rules, and then drafting of the 2003 Interpretations) to ensure that the fairlead must be a turning point in the system. They have failed (in their wording) in both cases!

The outrage is not that we are forced to be creative to make the most out of the current rule. The outrage is that the Rule Writers can not speak English ("The English text of the Laser Class Rules shall govern," By-Law 1) and as a result, since late 2001, we have been holding World Championships and Regionals and Nationals and Distict Championships following completely subjective and inconsistent interpretations of this rule!!!

I therefore welcome ISAF's recent efforts to bring some uniformity to the Laser Class Rules interpretations and measurement procedures, and hope that the decisions of the ISAF Olympic Measurement Committee will form a basis for uniform application of the rules of this "one-design" class in all levels of racing.

Currently, the Laser Class is falling short of being a "one-design" class. That's what "this outrage about what seems to be a minor issue" is.

Shevy

PS. "McLube" performs equally well after it gets soaking wet! Just wanted to clear that.
 

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