ok.....hull repair under storage well.

joe c

banned
crack in my hull under the storage well. i filled it with thickened epoxy back in the winter but probably bouncing on the trailer or loading it with no water/lowtide probably busted the crack open. i decided to poke at it today and yep, goes all of the way through. took on about 20gals of water last time out. so thats just not gonna work.

so my question is, the best way to get it it from the interior is a deck plate up on top, then a deck plate in the well? i think i can get a drill in there to drill a hole for a small plate through a hole in the deck. i know i cant get my trim router inside the storage well. and my jigsaw wont fit either. even then ill be limited by the amount of room ill have and will need a mirror to see into the hull. which isnt going to be the best solution either.

thx!
 
Sounds like a lot of work! :eek:

Doesn't this call for a "shoreline" repair through the bottom? (There is some space before hitting the bottom of the cubby).

A strong repair can be made extending beyond the inside leaking point, while strengthening the keel.
 
Sounds like a lot of work! :eek:

Doesn't this call for a "shoreline" repair through the bottom? (There is some space before hitting the bottom of the cubby).

A strong repair can be made extending beyond the inside leaking point, while strengthening the keel.
I have a spare hull.. so graft in a donor patch from that? That's a way better Idea.
 
Not exactendly a graft, but I'd follow shoreline's cutout of the leaky area. (Leaving about an inch and a half on each side--assuming six inches long). If i had an irretrievably-hopeless Sunfish hull, I'd cut out a piece of keel about six inches longer on each end--slightly wider--and use it to back up your (now repaired on the inside) original keel cutout segment.

Wrangle the "wetted" reinforcement donor piece inside with a layer of 8-oz cloth, and pull the two keel segments together with screws. Adjust and allow to set. Fair and paint.

For a small penalty in weight, the keel isn't going to break or leak there again! ;)
 
Not exactendly a graft, but I'd follow shoreline's cutout of the leaky area. (Leaving about an inch and a half on each side--assuming six inches long). If i had an irretrievably-hopeless Sunfish hull, I'd cut out a piece of keel about six inches longer on each end--slightly wider--and use it to back up your (now repaired on the inside) original keel cutout segment.

Wrangle the "wetted" reinforcement donor piece inside with a layer of 8-oz cloth, and pull the two keel segments together with screws. Adjust and allow to set. Fair and paint.

For a small penalty in weight, the keel isn't going to break or leak there again! ;)

I was so back and forth on this..i can push a screw driver through the hull at the crack. I talked to matt up at tannermatic and he said go in from the top..cloth and epoxy the interior, then epoxy fill the exterior. It was quite a bit easier but i did i have to get 2 deck plates. (Thats what i get for giving the other ones away..lol) I put the hole saw on a 6" ratchet extension with a socket to get through the cubby. Worked great for 4" ports . I was able to miss the reinforcement on the deck there too. I also picked up a clear plate so I can monitor. If this doesn't work, I'll cut out a graft from one of the other hulls later..or who am I kidding. I'll just buy another good hull.. lol.. 90 and sunny today and I have my battery leaf blower blowing through to clear the last of the dampness..I should be able to get it laminated up on the interior today.
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Great documentary pictures. How do you like that $80 Anderson bailer?

I'd save those cut out pieces. By bonding one to the transom, I used one to greatly reinforce a replacement Sunfish rudder gudgeon on my long-sold Porpoise II.

My weight has "belabored" the deck where you accessed the leak. (Spider cracks surround my cockpit as it is). I hope that upper inspection port gives sufficient strength. :oops:
 
Great documentary pictures. How do you like that $80 Anderson bailer?

I'd save those cut out pieces. By bonding one to the transom, I used one to greatly reinforce a replacement Sunfish rudder gudgeon on my long-sold Porpoise II.

My weight has "belabored" the deck where you accessed the leak. (Spider cracks surround my cockpit as it is). I hope that upper inspection port gives sufficient strength. :oops:
Same! I was thinking of using a piece of angle there under neath..I usually end up sitting there when doing the 2 up..but realized pretty quick im too much of a fat ass..so I slide back a bit.

That bailer actually works great..it was in the boat when I got it. I got 4 layers of woven in, increasing in size and overlap..epoxy running out of the exterior so I think it's a good fix. Initially I was thinking I'd need to put a larger port on the deck to get a 5 or 6 inch port inside the cubby..but 4" was perfect and I only needed a 4 1/2" hole saw..I used a 6" long 3/8 extension with an adapter for my impact in a drill, with a socket that fit the hex on the hole saw..I backed the pilot bit way in so I didn't go through the hull. So ill let this cure overnight then probably do a little sea trial on Tuesday. I didn't want another port on the deck..I though about going really big so I could access stuff from above but skipped that.

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Nice repair!
I like the 6” ratchet extension with socket access to a tricky area. I too thought “Shoreline” but you found a great workaround.
I also use the clear deck plate covers, and add deck ports only when necessary!
 

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Several suggestions.

you can buy fiberglass shapes and flats from McMaster-Carr on line, but, I prefer to lay up rather than stick on.

your new ports give you excellent access to lay up a proper glass-epoxy patch and reinforcement.

use painter tape all around the openings to keep the epoxy off the hull

scarify the interior to get a good bond.

I use only US Composite 635 THIN resin. On line purchase. Buy the dispensing/measuring pumps. Excellent wet-out, slow cure, long working time, zero blush so multiple layers are easy. soap and scrub clean up but wear gloves. I get 9 mill pro gloves at Harbor Freight, durable and affordable.

for your repair I would apply serious layers inside and a pretty large area. Use a 1” throw away chip brush for mixing and applying. Use the brush to smooth out the patch and to exclude the air. Pre-wet the surface before the first layer. Pre-cut all planned patches before starting.

when the inside is done, flip the hull, grind a tapered depth into the broken old fibers maybe 2 inches either side of the crack. Fill with glass mat and epoxy. You can promote a smooth finish by pressing a thin polyethylene film sheet onto the surface. Stretch the film flat and painter tape the edges to make the film stay flat. If you do this carefully the surface will be nearly glossy when the film is pulled and near net shape. Work the air out. Later, If you need fairing, mix in 3-M micro balloons from US Composites to a stiff creamy consistency. Easy to long-board.

cure time on the resin is 2-3 days for sanding. I said it was slow. Working time is 2-6 hours depending on temperature.
 

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I would need to see pictures of the crack. My guess is you should be able to fix it from outside depending on length. I have several boats with crack repairs to the keel being abused at a youth program and fine. My first guess is you did the epoxy repair wrong. You still need to feather back the area for the epoxy to have an area to bond to and not break free from. I have also done a keel repair where about a 4" long section the width of the keep was damaged. I made a back patch install from the bottom and held up by some cardboard. I feathered the edges like 3/4" and laid in a lot of glass (well you cant really lay in much cause it is thin. The key in any repair is to feather it back.

The hole through the deck and storage area is just bad in my opinion. A ton of extra work for no real benefit.
 
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"A lot of work!"

I think I already said that!

A lot of work! ("work" spoken in a Homer Simpson voice).

If no tape or cloth was used, why not drill a ⅛" hole, roll underneath with a $2 hobby-shop syringe filled with prepared resin (or Thixo) squirt it in, cover with duct tape, and let gravity seal the break?
 
I think I already said that!

A lot of work! ("work" spoken in a Homer Simpson voice).

If no tape or cloth was used, why not drill a ⅛" hole, roll underneath with a $2 hobby-shop syringe filled with prepared resin (or Thixo) squirt it in, cover with duct tape, and let gravity seal the break?
Gravity probably won’t do that. Oh how I fervently wish that it could, but it doesn’t have that kind of weight and the surfaces probably don’t have enough roughness for Thixo to grab.
 
A crack like that will not be repaired with resin alone. Cured resin is brittle without reinforcement. I stick with my post above. Do it right the first time or you will do it again and also will need to clear the previous attempt.
 
How do you compare the Composite stuff to West Systems? ....which Ive used "forever".
I see its 2:1 vs West's 5:1. West is getting pricey too...about $100/gal + $60/qt hardner.
I was gifted about 12 cans of their filler awhile back and have just always used West with zero failures over 35+ years. I know Jamestown Distributors promotes their brand too...about 2/3rds the cost.
I dont drink the stuff and use polyester resin for much of my stuff...so a gallon lasts a bit.
 
A crack like that will not be repaired with resin alone. Cured resin is brittle without reinforcement. I stick with my post above. Do it right the first time or you will do it again and also will need to clear the previous attempt.
I agree..think of drywall mudding without using tape.
 
West has done a great marketing job.

Like many things, epoxy is made in bulk by a very few chemical producers. It is repackaged and labeled. We$t is among the most expensive and marketed primarily through We$t Marine. It was, I believe, originally compounded for Gougeon Brothers boat works across Erie from Cleveland.

West System is fast even in the Slow version. You cannot do thick sections or even carry around a container of mixed resin without the thing going off fast and hot. I have had thick sections smoke. West, on curing, emits an amine blush on the surface. This prevents good bonding of subsequent coats unless you soap and water scrub, sand, dry. West is thick and high viscosity. This helps it to stay put but it inhibits wet out. It’s also a challenge to blend in fillers and to wet large sections.

635 THIN is compounded for boat builders. Note you can buy in 55 gallon drums. In the 2:1 version, it has no amine blush so you can create complex layering and builds with impunity. It will reach a cold chewing gum cure in 12 to 20 hours after which, keep going! It’s cure time is so slow I was able to mix 15 gallon pours with 3M micro balloons at a consistency of warm Kraft Marshmallow cream to fill my rudder 30” x 72” x 5 inch thick. No heat, three day cure in a cool basement. Resin viscosity is runny like light motor oil. Blending is easy and wet out is very fast and thorough. Uncured resin can be washed from your skin using liquid soap, scrub with a nylon pad or worn out Scotch Bright. Rinse with water. Try that with We$t.

I have used many epoxies. US Comp is my preferred for everything.
 
Yeah....I think "Gougeon Bros" seemed to hit the shelves first back in the day...competing MAYBE with Interlux 2000 in the barrier coat market, but boasting of many other uses as well. But Im thinking like most products, improvement is eventual on most initial products. That said. ...We$t (as I agrre with the spelling) probably wasnt really a "first".
 
A crack like that will not be repaired with resin alone. Cured resin is brittle without reinforcement. I stick with my post above. Do it right the first time or you will do it again and also will need to clear the previous attempt.
Correct: Offered three types of repair, with resin-only as a weekend / stop-gap (pardon the pun) measure.
 
Correct: Offered three types of repair, with resin-only as a weekend / stop-gap (pardon the pun) measure.
thickened epoxy injected worked pretty much the entire summer and i knew it was probably not a good fix when i did it. i didnt have spare hulls kicking around and didnt want to cut into the deck just yet. so, really happy to get that out of it. didnt realize the hole through was so big though. the tension kinda squeezed the crack back together. im guessing either beaching it or maybe it bouncing on the trailer reopened it. i didnt want to trial it over the weekend, gets busy here and not interested in crowds. gonna rain through tomorrow so probably thursday. i leak tested it pretty thoroughly and no bubbles. so pretty sure its good to go now and now reinforced from inside. if not, ill pull the ports out and all the fasteners hardware and swap hulls.

honestly the easiest thing to do is just buy another hull. i mean there are probably millions of them out there and for maybe a few hundred bucks its not worth the time to put into resins faring cloth paint sanding hauling flipping carrying etc. you still have a few hundred dollar hull in the end if that. if you like doing this sort of thing, thats one thing. id rather be sailing given the choice. i have no issues with sawing them up and hauling them to the county refuse center and replacng them. ill keep an eye out over the off season here. im not attached to these things so they will come and go. the port is relatively small on the deck. its not my first choice to have more ports as i think they look ugly, so if it sags or cracks i dont really care too much. i did get it in between the reinforced areas. and at 180lbs pretty much everything on the boat moves when im on it. haha. these are purely recreational toys for me with some phrf racing here and there.

thx for the input though. definitely appreciate the opinions. its funny....i knew i wouldnt get a definite answer . haha.
 
Joec that is some creative thinking and you got the tools to effect it! Thanks for posting the photos.

There are 500,000+ hulls out there, most of them in within a 241.8 statute mile radius of Waterbury, with one other sizable pod in Sarasota. Alan has hauled 739 of them dump in New York. Otherwise folks can't afford to be as picky, especially down on the Gulf Coast where hurricanes and warm salt water like to disappear small boats. So we appreciate the plethora of ideas on how to assault this objective.

Alcort warranty repair folks would have used the Blind Hole Patch method. I wonder how many Fish are out there with resin saturated bits of cardboard inside? I can tell you that this method is hurricane tested up to Cat II, it was the only pat of WAVE's bow chine that was identifiable after she tangled with Hurricane Sally.

RM 4 Blind Hole Patch copy.jpeg


We also liked the idea of making a hole to access the repair area, save the cutout. Then when finished doing a blind Hole Patch or Shoreline batten to reinstall the cutout piece. Was it mixmkr that posted about that years ago, all the time? Whoever it was stopped posting because no one listened, including me, but not I think it is brilliant, you're left with on thin circle of resin to gelcoat, or paint, or ignore, especially id the hole is on the bottom.

Cheers
Clark
Formerly known as "The Marine Tex Guy" (Glos, Alan. Zen and the Art of Sunfish Maintenance. 2012)
 

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