New to forums, a few questions...

mixmkr

Well-Known Member
#37
I've only sailed the newer style or older boats that have already been upgraded. But my common sense tells me if it is working fine and isn't giving you issues, I'd stick with it. Again, no experience of the older style (except as a kid 45+ years ago), so I have a uniformed opinion. I imagine there are many, many still out there, sailing just fine with the older style. I think it's when you get into consistently much heavier winds and waves, that I've read it becomes more an issue, with popping up. Great forces = likelihood of malfunction. I've never read of the new style having those issues.
 
#39
Glad you got the old girl on the water. Now you know what needs to be done before the second sail.

In no order:

The metal bail on the inside of the coaming probably housed a compass in the past. You can remove it without worry.

I think (?) your rudder problems stem from the keel plate. I am guessing that at some point the flat head attachment screw stripped the threads in the keel and somebody moved it forward into a new hole. Remove the flat head screw and see if I am right. If so, put the plate on a solid surface, flat side down, and gently hammer it smooth. It is bronze so you won't damage it if you are careful. Then epoxy the holes in the keel, let the epoxy cure, position the plate over the original hole and drill a new pilot hole and reattach the plate in the correct position.

As for the spring plate, make sure it is flat, and hammer flat if not. Consider turning it over if it has lost some spring. Make sure the forward round head attchment screw is snug as any play will reduce he spring tension.

Finally reattach the rudder assembly, tighten the wing nut on the bronze carriage bolt and see if the rudder is snug in the "down" position. As for the horrizontal pin, any 1/4" dia, hex bolt with a nylon nut will work fine. You should also get a length of plastic hose to fit around the carriage bolt to reduce the wobble in the fiberglass channel. If the bolt wobbles side to side, this also contributes to unwanted kick-up.

Bailer: Post photos. Is it metal or white plastic? Where does it appear to be leaking?

Halyard cleat: A mast cleat is good, and an easy install, but you still need the deck eye and a deck cleat to secure the loose end of the halyard to the deck - if you don't you risk losing the entire rig if you capsize the boat.

If you need parts (horn cleats, deck halyard eye, new bailer etc.) let me know. I can sell you a box full for pretty cheap.

Good luck with the project.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY
 
#40
I have a horn Cleat on the mast and I think it’s a good idea. But you asked if there was any downside. The downside that I’ve noticed is that it’s harder to lower your sail quickly. First you have to release the cleat on the deck then release the cleat on the mast. That takes time. If there’s only a cleat on the deck it’s both easier to reach and you don’t need to do anything to the mast. Perhaps someone on the forum can suggest a better way to lower the sail quickly even with a mast cleat. But I like how the mast cleat takes the pressure off the deck cleat, so I’m keeping mine.
 
#41
I use an open clam cleat on the mast of my race boat so it is an easy disconnect and you can bypass the mast cleat entirely if you wanted to. The mast cleat reduces the down thrust on the mast and reduces friction at the bottom of the mast hole which makes the boat a little easier to tack and gybe, especially in light wind conditions.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY
 
Thread starter #42
Ugh. So got all my parts today (thanks Alan), and installed. Tried to go out in a fairly stiff breeze (10-15 kt) with comical results. First issue was my new mast cleat. Didn't allow the gooseneck to slide up the mast. I guess I need to mount it much higher. More worrisome still having rudder issues. I put on the tube, though I think it needs to be thicker. Rudder popped off twice. Problem is that when it pops off, it's tough to reattach while underway. In these breezes that sucks. Capsized on a jibe, at least partially because I couldn't steer. The fore screw on the upper latch plate pulled free at some point. Anyway, I reattached and glued, we'll see how it holds and whether that's the problem or not. I'm becoming less enamored with this old style rudder.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#43
While I haven't installed a mast cleat, I recall from this forum that it can be as high as four feet from "the bottom".
 
#44
Didn’t you say in your first post that you were looking forward to capsizing on your first jibe? Well, you may need to work out a couple of things, but if your boat didn’t weigh a ton when you took it out of the water then the rest is minor! Remove the mast cleat, fill those screw holes with JB Weld, reinstall the cleat higher- about 42” from the bottom of the mast. Be sure to position it so the halyard runs straight down to the cleat. Did you install a second cleat on the deck yet? I think I read that you had a solid backer block there, so a bit of epoxy in the old screw holes before install should do it. If that backer isn’t solid I see a couple of inspection ports in your future. It’s only scary the first time you cut a big hole in your boat, then it gets easier. The second port will be for your new style rudder. It doesn’t need to be a $600 or even a $300 job. I just bought a perfect rudder for $25. The hull had to be saw-zalled, but it was worth it! I have the word ‘rudder’ as a saved search on craigslist, so when they come up I’m notified. (*also save ‘rutter’ because it’s amazing how many people can’t spell!)
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#45
Could the rudder tube be too short? May have to shim with washers.

If your deck is painted, glue will pull a patch of paint off, and not be of help.
 
Thread starter #46
Yeah, I can see that the mast cleat needs to go up. Didn't think of it when I installed it. The rudder tube ATM is 1/2" pex. 3/4 I think would work. 1.25 pvc is just a bit too thick. I don't think the deck is painted, but I actually filled the hole with wood and then did the whole thing with pl Marine adhesive. Deck is gel coated but I don't think it will hold long term. Alan sold me a halyard cleat and eye, deck drain, and horizontal pin and chain for the rudder. All installed and working well.
 
#47
Yeah, I can see that the mast cleat needs to go up. Didn't think of it when I installed it. The rudder tube ATM is 1/2" pex. 3/4 I think would work. 1.25 pvc is just a bit too thick. I don't think the deck is painted, but I actually filled the hole with wood and then did the whole thing with pl Marine adhesive. Deck is gel coated but I don't think it will hold long term. Alan sold me a halyard cleat and eye, deck drain, and horizontal pin and chain for the rudder. All installed and working well.
Sounds like you’re well on your way! Maybe you’ll like the old rudder once these minor kinks are worked out.
 

Sailflow

Active Member
#48
Nola Mike can you take a picture of your bracket set up with the rudder installed? Once the rudder is in place you usually have to crank down the butterfly nut to put extra tension while sailing.
 

mixmkr

Well-Known Member
#49
Put the mast cleat just higher than you'll ever raise the gooseneck. I sometimes raise my sail in waist deep water, and a cleat "too" high might make that difficult.
 
Thread starter #50
I think I might have it. Put the rudder on, THEN tighten the nut. I had tightened the nut so that I had to snap the rudder on smartly initially, but that still leaves it too loose. If I crank the nut after, it seems pretty secure. Still a pain and the tiller covers the nut. Sea trial when the waves die down a bit...
20180901_124159.jpg
 
Thread starter #51
Well, crap. Had an unexpected storm blow in, pretty violent unfortunately. In addition to doing damage to my sea wall, crushing my boat launch, and taking some toys, my sail and spars are gone as well. Surf came 10' over my sea wall. That's happened 2x in my 10 years here. The sail and spars were rolled up under a couple of kayaks. Kayaks were taken out as well, but I found them washed up on the rocks a ways down (minus a paddle). So I'm thinking I might have a parts boat at this point. Haven't a clue where to find the spars, or if there's a DIY replacement for them. I know I can get a sail for not too bad, but the one I had was in mint shape. I'm bummed.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#52
Sorry to hear that. As for replacement spars, expensive shipping tends to make them uneconomical to buy separately. I'd put a Craigslist ad in, looking for a "Sunfish, condition unimportant, but must be complete--$150 offered."

But wait until after Hurricane Florence has passed you by! :eek: With the ground rain-saturated from Georgia to Pennsylvania, this one might affect a whole lot of people.

The Carolinas should evacuate a day early. :(
 
Thread starter #53
Yeah, unfortunately I think I'd probably be better off at this point just looking for a new boat with the new style tiller, and parting what I have. I now have all the hardware (ha), and I can get a few bucks for the tiller and rudder looks like on ebay. Still have the mast. Unfortunately I haven't seen a lot of sunfish, never mind parts, around here. Took me a couple of months to get this one.
 
#54
So sorry to read this, Nola Mike. That hurts! Mother Nature can be cruel. Definitely keep an eye on craigslist, and more recently I've turned to Facebook marketplace to find (and sell) things. Put in the parameter of distance you're willing to travel for spars. You may find a sail with or without spars. A sail can be easily mailed for about $13.00, spars, of course, cannot. It sounds like you want to upgrade the rudder, so parting out might be the way to go, but if your hull was undamaged you could upgrade the rudder on your existing boat. Then again, a (new style) rudder with gudgeon/backer= $250, sail=$100-150, spars= $100-150)* used, plus doing the work, you will probably be better off with a new (used) complete Sunfish, as you say. As the season is turning to fall I generally find it's a great time to buy. Your old style rudder/tiller should sell for $100-150. The rest of the rudder hardware another $50 or so. It is a pain to package and ship the rudder/tiller, but I've done it.
There was just a thread on this forum recently in the 'for sale' section, I think, someone looking for the old style rudder. Sorry I don't have link to the thread but I think it was for a free hull.
I see a slick newer Sunfish with a crisp cool sail in your future!
 
Thread starter #56
I don’t think Virginia is a Sunfish hotbed but they are around. By next sailing season I bet you’ll have found what you need used.
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised by that. Took me 2 months to find the last one. Growing up in New England, you couldn't take a step at a lake without tripping on one...
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#57
With a Craigslist wanted ad, you can "aim" your ad to a select geographical area. :cool:

Lake Anna is a small, but 17-mile lake—an hour away—and directly off Virginia's I-95. ;) From 'way over here ;) that sounds like a perfect lake for Sunfish.

As above, we're "Falling" into the off-season, so direct your Craigslist ad in the direction of Lake Anna. (What I'd do). :)

.
 
Thread starter #58
With a Craigslist wanted ad, you can "aim" your ad to a select geographical area. :cool:

Lake Anna is a small, but 17-mile lake—an hour away—and directly off Virginia's I-95. ;) From 'way over here ;) that sounds like a perfect lake for Sunfish.

As above, we're "Falling" into the off-season, so direct your Craigslist ad in the direction of Lake Anna. (What I'd do). :)

.
Doesn't it sound like a lovely place to sail? I'm looking there, but haven't seen anything in months. Good idea with the directed ads, though really I need to find someone that wasn't even thinking about selling it. I see a $600 boat in norfolk area, been for sale for 2 months. Looks '70's new style rudder anyway. He still has it, waiting on word back about sail condition, etc. Might throw $400 at him and see what happens if everything else looks good.
 
#59
Nola Mike if money isn’t a concern you can order a new set of spars from Annapolis Performance Sailing and take a road trip up there to pick them up. I am thinking about ordering a new mast and spars from them ($500). Upper and lower booms only is $325. Takes about 2 weeks to get them once you place your order. There is a sunfish for sale on Craigslist in Yorktown for $600 as well.
 
Thread starter #60
Yeah, saw the boat in yorktown...guy hasn't got back to me yet. Booms and sail = $500 + road trip + sitting in DC traffic, and I'll still have the old rudder at the end of the day. I still have a solid month of boating, but I'll just keep my eyes open, I'm sure I can find something before next season.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#61
So sorry to read this, Nola Mike. That hurts!
Mother Nature can be cruel. Definitely keep an eye on craigslist, and more recently I've turned to Facebook marketplace to find (and sell) things. There was just a thread on this forum recently in the 'for sale' section, I think, someone looking for the old style rudder. Sorry I don't have link to the thread but I think it was for a free hull. I see a slick newer Sunfish with a crisp cool sail in your future!
I don't "do" Facebook, but is there a "Lost & Found" section? How about Craigslist? :cool:

These spars may yet return—either at Facebook, Craigslist :) or the "shuffling effects" of hurricanes. :(

This morning, it appears Hurricane Florence's "target area" is moving north, towards Virginia and even Kentucky! This is a very wet storm, with rainfall measured in feet! :eek:

Hopefully, this won't be a "slow" storm—which would make things worse. (As one who lost most of my cordless and stationary power tools to Hurricane Irma, I hope to not "sidetrack" this thread with the weather...but!)
 

Attachments

#62
How deep is the water around where the sail was. If the sail was wrapped it, was probably lifted and dropped in the water close by. The rig does not float. Find a kid with a mask and fins to give a look.
 
Thread starter #63
Well, usually not deep, 6' deep at 100' feet out. That storm surge probably brought it to twice that. It was too rough for me to go out there the other day, hopefully tomorrow am I'll take another look.
 
Thread starter #66
I used my 2 feet, went out about 50 feet and 300 upriver with no luck. Any reason I can't diy some spars? Maybe from a flagpole or something? I've read that masts seem cost prohibitive, but the dimensions of the spars seem a bit flexible...
 
#67
Looks like a nice Sunfish in Yorktown, VA on craigslist for $650. New style rudder. Not my boat. I'd try to get that nice dolly with it ( though it says not included)
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
#70
Guy said it was available, then didn't respond to 2 follow up email last week
People are looking for REAL bargains on Craigslist. It's best to reply by telephone. Emails get lost when responders "promise" to show up.

How deep is the water around where the sail was. If the sail was wrapped it, was probably lifted and dropped in the water close by.
The rig does not float. Find a kid with a mask and fins to give a look.
It doesn't? :eek:

/
 
Thread starter #72
Well, got a line on some spars and sail and gooseneck for $300. He said the sail's the original from '68 but is mint. He also has one from the '90's. I read that the sail's were a different/worse design in the 60's. Can anyone confirm? He had a rudder as well, but it was old style. Should I pull the trigger on this?
 
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