New guy, old Laser: advice on upgrades please

lungdoc

lungdoc

New Member
Hi, I just got an older Laser (probably mid-80's) for free from our cottage neighbour. I'll use it mostly for recreational casual use with one informal race a year at our cottage regatta (small lake in Muskoka). I've done casual sailing for a few years, but no expert. Boat hasn't had much use.

Used it on the weekend and it needs a bit of upgrading. The outhaul and Cunningham (very old school, no pulleys/blocks) are rather worn and pulling through the cleats (? if due to worn cleat or old line or both), there's no clew strap and it need a new plug, other than that works fine and very little leakage, none at mast step. Given the price, I'm happy to spend a little to get in in good shape!

I'm thinking of getting the Vanguard Cunningham and outhaul "Performance Upgrade kit" for 239 cdn, leaving the current vang. Add a clew strap. A few of questions:

  1. Will the Cunningham and outhaul upgrade allow for easy rigging still - can most be left on the boom?
  2. I believe the existing outhaul and Cunningham cleats either get replaced in kit or won't be used so I don't need separate new ones?
  3. Is this a good upgrade kit - I see APS has a different one.
  4. Any value in adding a block to the vang - if so what should I get
  5. What size shock cord for the centerboard?
  6. Is it worth replacing mainsheet block (the one in the cockpit) - the one in the boat works fine, doesn't cleat or ratchet - from what I've read cleating not desirable to most, is ratchet??
  7. Sail is old-looking but intact, is a new sail worth it or overkill for my casual needs?
I'd appreciate any input or advice from this great group!

Thanks

Mark
 
1. With a little thought or slightly different method of derigging, yes, the new upgrade is still quick to rig/derig and it all can stay intact when you take the mast down.

2. Yes, the existing cleats are removed/no longer used

3. Vanguard kit is fine - APS may break the kit down and offer some different cleat/block options, but they all do the same thing.

4. Yes, if you are staying with the old school vang, adding a second line and a block or two or three is highly recommended. See this thread for more info http://www.laserforum.org/old-school-vang-system-t5747.html?t=5747&highlight=school+vang
And this site for good diagrams: http://www.wvaegir.nl/newrig_2.html

5. 3/16" or 1/4"

6. Having a ratchet block for the mainsheet really makes life easy. I honestly don't know anyone who does not use one.

7. Casual use, any sail that is not going to fall to pieces will be just fine. If you have to or want to replace it and are just doing informal racing on your lake, consider one of the non-class legal ones (go to www.intensitysails.com) that are about 1/3 the price of the class legal one
 
I'll take a little different tack on it. For recreational sailing, really, there's very little that needs to change from the basic. For your enjoyment, you should fix what's broken so it doesn't bug you or make you unsafe when you're on the water.

If you've got the money and like to tinker, go ahead and do the upgrades, but between outhal/cunningham and vang upgrades, that's 500 bucks!


Also, the cunningham upgrade expects the vang upgrade to be in place; if it's not, you'll need to be a bit resourceful in finding a way to secure the lower end of the cunningham block. It can be done.

lungdoc said:
The outhaul and Cunningham (very old school, no pulleys/blocks) are rather worn and pulling through the cleats (? if due to worn cleat or old line or both)
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Start with replacing the cunningham cleat. It's easy to replace the cunningham cleat, more difficult to replace the outhaul cleat since it's riveted on.

There's no clew strap
Click to expand...
Many sources for these; but you can also just use some plain old line to make a few wraps around the boom and tie it off with a square knot.

and it need a new plug,
Click to expand...
You definitely need that. Don't want the boat or cockpit filling up with water. Once you identify the one you need, get a spare or two, as they're cheap and these things are easy to lose. Spend a little time figuring out which transom plug you need, as there have been a few different sizes/configurations over the years.

Don't wait to go sailing until you've got the "right" part though; you can use an ordinary cork for the cockpit drain, and I've been known to seal the transom plug with a strip of duct tape when I left my transom plug at home.


Will the Cunningham and outhaul upgrade allow for easy rigging still - can most be left on the boom?
Click to expand...
Most stuff can be left on the boom, but the old-style rigging, being simpler is still a bit faster to rig.


I believe the existing outhaul and Cunningham cleats either get replaced in kit or won't be used so I don't need separate new ones?
Click to expand...
yes

Is this a good upgrade kit - I see APS has a different one.
Click to expand...
either one is fine.

Any value in adding a block to the vang - if so what should I get
Click to expand...
Browse around the web for photos of how others have done it. Basically they use the small "bullet" blocks from harken or other suppliers.

What size shock cord for the centerboard?
Click to expand...
without going out to my boat, I think I use 1/4"

Is it worth replacing mainsheet block (the one in the cockpit) - the one in the boat works fine, doesn't cleat or ratchet - from what I've read cleating not desirable to most, is ratchet??
Click to expand...
If it's windy, you'll definitely appreciate a ratcheting block. I type for a living, my hands are fatigued from a lifetime of typing, and this was the one upgrade I absolutely needed.

Sail is old-looking but intact, is a new sail worth it or overkill for my casual needs?
Click to expand...
A new sail is overkill. You can place an ad/watch for ads on TLF asking for a used regatta sail that will still have much more life left in it than your old one. Also "Intensity" makes a sail that is not legal for class racing but is less than half the cost of a new class legal sail and is just fine for blasting around your local lake. Depending on how old the old one was, I'd probably change my sail for $200 before I blew $200 on outhaul/cunningham upgrades. But if the sail is sturdy enough that you can't tear it with your hands, it's good enough to go sailing with.
 
Thanks for another excellent response. I did order (just before your post actually!) the Cunningham/outhaul upgrade, as well as a Carbo Ratchamatic mainsheet block, some new plugs, a new traveler line, some tells, a clew strap, and a small single block to make the old Vang 8-1.

What is the issue/solution with old-vang and new Cunningham-outhaul that you mentionned?

I didn't mind spending a few $$ since the boat was free and I'm selling my old second-hand Mistral dinghy for more than these upgrades, so my total sailing investment is still pretty low!
 
The lower block for the cunningham attaches to the new vang block. Without the new vang you will need to rig something up to attach the lower block to the existing vang.
 
OK, thanks. If it is too weak/small to allow a drill hole then perhaps a shackle secured/lashed around the lower mast and below the vang "tab" ?? I don't have the boat nearby but I can no doubt rig something up.
 
lungdoc said:
OK, thanks. If it is too weak/small to allow a drill hole then perhaps a shackle secured/lashed around the lower mast and below the vang "tab" ?? I don't have the boat nearby but I can no doubt rig something up.
Click to expand...

You can either find a shackle that fits over the outside of the vang block where it attaches to the tang (tab), or tie some line around the tang to attach the new cunningham block to. Once you see what's involved, it's easy to solve. I would avoid drilling another hole in the tang though.
 
Before I upgraded my vang, the Cunningham block was tied to the vang tang with a small length if 1/8" Amsteel.
 
lungdoc said:
Hi, I just got an older Laser (probably mid-80's) for free from our cottage neighbour. I'll use it mostly for recreational casual use with one informal race a year at our cottage regatta (small lake in Muskoka). I've done casual sailing for a few years, but no expert. Boat hasn't had much use.

Used it on the weekend and it needs a bit of upgrading. The outhaul and Cunningham (very old school, no pulleys/blocks) are rather worn and pulling through the cleats (? if due to worn cleat or old line or both), there's no clew strap and it need a new plug, other than that works fine and very little leakage, none at mast step. Given the price, I'm happy to spend a little to get in in good shape!

I'm thinking of getting the Vanguard Cunningham and outhaul "Performance Upgrade kit" for 239 cdn, leaving the current vang. Add a clew strap. A few of questions:

  1. Will the Cunningham and outhaul upgrade allow for easy rigging still - can most be left on the boom?
  2. I believe the existing outhaul and Cunningham cleats either get replaced in kit or won't be used so I don't need separate new ones?
  3. Is this a good upgrade kit - I see APS has a different one.
  4. Any value in adding a block to the vang - if so what should I get
  5. What size shock cord for the centerboard?
  6. Is it worth replacing mainsheet block (the one in the cockpit) - the one in the boat works fine, doesn't cleat or ratchet - from what I've read cleating not desirable to most, is ratchet??
  7. Sail is old-looking but intact, is a new sail worth it or overkill for my casual needs?
I'd appreciate any input or advice from this great group!

Thanks

Mark
Click to expand...

Are the Cunningham & outhaul cleats plastic or alloy? If alloy, try the simplest & cheapest upgrade and replace the lines. If plastic, upgrade to alloy and replace the lines. The control lines wear flat in the cleats and then tend to slip, a new line can make a huge difference!

I made a simple 4:1 for my Cunningham, attached a block to the mast tang. I tie off the line on the opposite side of the tang, take the line up, through the eye on the sail, down, through the block, up through the sail eye again then down to the deck fitting. Seems to work fairly well.

It's well worth having a ratchet block on the main sheet, much less tiring!

I can't comment on upgrade kits, cos I haven't bought one! :D

My Laser is recently bought, a 1981 boat, slowly trying to upgrade without spending more than I paid for the boat! I would say that a new sail makes an INCREDIBLE difference. I bought the replica from Intensity sails, what a transformation.

I would suggest that for recreational use your best value for money would be to renew all the lines, replace plastic cleats with alloy, upgrade to a ratchet block on the mainsheet and buy a new sail.

That will give you a boat which will give you a lot of fun for a very long time and at a reasonable price.

Al.
 
isleofwightlen said:
lungdoc , where are you located & how much are you selling your old Mistral for ?
Click to expand...

I'm in Ontario, the boat is at cottage near Huntsville, asking $600 - repainted recently and in pretty good shape. I suspect though from your username that that might be a little far from you!

Appreciate the other tips. I'll consider a sail and our annual regatta race is so casual that even in the very unlikely event I were to win I doubt anyone would notice or care if I went with one of the unofficial ones.
 
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