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New builders

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Now that World Sailing has finally okayed the Olympic status, it's (finally) time for the next step: ILCA now accepting new builder applications

Some interesting points :
  • "The ILCA Class Rules now allow builders and suppliers to manufacture and sell class-legal equipment under alternative trademarks brands, as long as all equipment is compliant with the construction manual." Translation: no deal with LaserPerformance about licensing the Laser name for the new builders. The new boats have to be sold as, for example, "ILCA Dinghies" although they will race in the "Laser" class.
  • "The current process is seeking to appoint new builders only. A process for appointment of new equipment suppliers will follow completion of the current round of the new builder appointment process." Does "supplier" here mean "manufacturer of anything else than the hull" or "dealer"?
  • ..."ILCA has no target for the number or location of new builders." Not necessarily a good thing. With decreasing global demand, we can't have that many new builders (realistically, two or three), and some regions (like South America) will be left out again.
  • "ILCA takes no position as to the level of competition in any market and will not in any way allocate market areas or restrict the ability of any builder to sell class-legal equipment wherever it chooses." Yes. This finally fixes the fundamental problem.
  • "...builders will be required to commence production no later than 12 months after the 2020 Olympics." First "new" boats on the market two years from now at the very latest.
  • what was called the Laser Construction Manual is apparently now the "ILCA Build Manual" (IBM) , although it's not used consistently here.

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Rob B

Well-Known Member
To me the big question is how fast will PSA be able to ramp things up, establish a dealer network and get gear distributed into the markets. Given their big ad in the new Laser Sailor they appear to be going for it.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
This is great news, at least for the US market. But we will have to be patient; PSA appears to be focussed on supplying Lasers for the big events coming up in Australia.
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
From the upcoming Laser Sailor mag PSA is advertising boats to be available in the US, (at least for event chartering and post regatta purchase) in the next few months!
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
An update from LPE

Considering these guys just lost a huge lawsuit with Kirby I'd take any news release from them with a huge grain of salt. Furthermore, as long as they are building boats in violation of a patent, (or whatever it is) who would want to make them an "approved" builder just from that standpoint alone. NOT considering the OTHER reasons they were given the boot and then given 6 MONTHS to make the necessary changes to be approved again?
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
All that LP stuff is gobbledegook to try to distract people from the facts. Just to pull 2 random points out their response - the first one below about generic names is really none of LP's business and unlikely to impact one design principles. The second one says licenses would be needed - I am pretty sure that would only apply if those mfrs wanted to use the Laser name, but they no longer have to. And they will be granted those licenses based on meeting some unspecified criteria that LP would establish. In my opinion LP has proven themselves untrustworthy in the past and I doubt they plan to change.

  • While LP has fully agreed to the Olympic Equipment Policy and FRAND requirements (and signed the requested document), LP does not agree to the introduction of generic names, regardless of what “vote” has taken place. This will lead to the demise of the class and tremendous difficulty maintaining One Design principles.
  • LP expects that those seeking to supply in territories where LP is the Laser trademark owner will apply to LP for a license to do so. LP will follow the guidelines established for new builders and suppliers: if they meet the criteria, LP will grant them a license to supply in our territory. The license will be royalty-free.
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
  • LP expects that those seeking to supply in territories where LP is the Laser trademark owner will apply to LP for a license to do so. LP will follow the guidelines established for new builders and suppliers: if they meet the criteria, LP will grant them a license to supply in our territory. The license will be royalty-free.
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Isn't this what they just lost a massive lawsuit over....??
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Isn't this what they just lost a massive lawsuit over....??
No - that was (if I've understood it right) about LP having not paid Kirby his contractual royalties. This is LP offering the "Laser" trademark(s) to new builders in "their" region for free. They're trying to play the role of the nice guy again, but don't realize that the name is irrelevant now that the "vote" went the way it did. ("Nice" attitude towards the class members to put that word in quotes...)

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Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
Yes, I agree that the Laser trademark has very little value now.
In fact, Rastegar may have to make a major withdrawal from the bank due to the outcome of the lawsuit vs Kirby personally and BKI. But the legalities aren’t over, as others have noted.
 

torrid

Just sailing
No - that was (if I've understood it right) about LP having not paid Kirby his contractual royalties. This is LP offering the "Laser" trademark(s) to new builders in "their" region for free. They're trying to play the role of the nice guy again, but don't realize that the name is irrelevant now that the "vote" went the way it did. ("Nice" attitude towards the class members to put that word in quotes...)

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I believe the ruling was related to the boats being imported with Kirby's name, not the royalty contracts or the Laser trademark.
 

Jason Rucker

Active Member
A couple of observations from the latest "progress report": 1) Zim has obviously dropped out as a license holder separate from Zou International Marine (which is where the name comes from, after all) so they won't start building their own boats but import them from China, and 2) A few additional unnamed builders are still in the game.

Progress Report on New Class Builders – International Laser Class Association

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The only attraction to Zim was having a Laser made is the USA. I’m not interested in buying a boat imported from China.
 

ryanj24

New Member
Now that the new builders are cranking away I'm sure a lot of you guys are going to want to get rid of your slow, old, lame, slow boats. If you're in the PNW I'd be happy to take that dusty old ride off your hands. I mean who wants a slow PSA boat when you can have a world-beater Ovington? I mean besides me.
 
In the meantime you have these weird thing...... In NL a new Laser (for The Laser Class) is now cheaper compared to a 2016 one (although that one comes with a trolly but still):

New:
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Old:
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