NA Masters Worlds Berths 2010 and beyond


Active Member
Thread starter #1
I don't like what we have set up this time. Whining is a waste of everybody's time and annoying.

The only way to get something done better is to work on improving the system.

Here is my basic starter proposal so we have a place to begin the discussion:

1. Our current NA Champ not only has dibs on the first available position but our paid staff will seek that champion out, find out PERSONALLY if our champion wants to attend and make certain ILCA knows that our champion must be included regarless of any protocol ILCA might have.
2. Consider similar treatment for the Canadian and US Masters champions and for any current world champions who live in North America.
3. Those who finished at the top of their age dividsions in most recent North American Championships should be able to claim a North American berth.
4. In cases like this year where the 2009 North American Masters will be sailed again before the 2009 worlds and after the 2009 world's registration period has closed, The NA Class should reserve spots for the Champion of each division so that our current "hot" sailors can qualify well after the entry operiod has closed..
5. Some positions should be made available by resume or NA-ILCA apointment. The criteria should be announced in advance for possible resume appointment but a system might be:
North America will assign spaces to applicants who haveindicated interest by applying before the ILCA deadline. NA-ILCA wsill make places availablke to certain sailors regardless of their order of submission of the applications based upon those sailors past performance. Some of the individual factors contributing to a resume would be:
a. Service to the ILCA as a fleet captain or district secretary
b. Previous performance in World competition (Won the younger division 10 years ago, has finished in the top five or ten)
c. Previous performance at the ILCA-NA Masters events
d. Previous performance generally...especially young guys who are now apprentices
e. General performance in any Laser Masters events
f. Stalwarts to the game ( has previously atended masters worlds, does the Florida Masters circuit every year, just plain sails lots of Laser regattas)

Maybe no one of the above gets a person to the head of the line but a pile of such factors, especially after all our champions have been granted berths, should be good enough to push an applicant onto the tail of the berths list. Certainly any of the above is more important than, " Did you hover over your computer at 8 AM England time and fill out a form before others."

I would not have any problem what so ever with 30 of our forty positions being locked up by previous qualification so that "entering at 8 am" was only a lottery for five sailors.

In fact, ESPECIALLY with limited berths, I don't see much point in having the first come first served as an entry / qualification system in there at all.

Time periods for entry make sense as a convenience. The entry period in 2008 was a contest in itself.

Our competitions should be limited to on the water play in Lasers. The ability to sign up fastest should not be a criteria.
If I may Fred, I think a little too much is being made of the initial allocation quota because it appears, artificially I might add, to be so constraining. Remember, the "quota" was developed based on 1) number of countries (well, and North America) registered with ILCA, 2) membership in those countries, 3) entry limit for the event. To appear to be "fair" this gives Master Worlds berths to countries that will never attempt to fill them, since they have ILCA membership solely so they can get berths in the Senior and Radial Women's Worlds. As soon as the initial "application for entry" period is over all unused spots will get re-allocated to those countries that have oversubscribed their quotas (and, for this year's event, that is Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand and North America).

I'm not saying that one shouldn't have a more stringent qualification system in the future, only that I would try to make it as simple as possible since, in the end, you may not really have a problem than needs to be solved and you don't want to unnecessarily exclude people.

However, I think devising an equitable "qualification" scheme for the Master Worlds can quickly become very tricky. The Master Worlds are a different animal from the Radial and/or Senior Worlds... in my experience, I'd say that the top 10%, or so, of competitors are hardcore, with coaches on the water at the event, having done training camps to prepare, sailed major open events against the Olympic sailors, are super fit, etc. The next 10%, or so, are serious and there "to win" but not in the same level (and, sadly, I must confess to being a member of this group). After that it tapers off really quickly to where the bulk of the sailors are there, really, to have an incredibly fun sailing vacation, usually in really interesting place, with lots of great people from all over the world, and quite often with their families in tow.

So, if one did believe that it was necessary to develop a "real" qualification system (still not obvious to me) I think the hybrid Aussie system (as I understand it) is a good model - the first spots are doled out to the winners of the major Master's championships (similar to what Fred suggests), then after that they go to a first come, first serve system. This assures the highly competitive sailors a spot, then keeps it open for people like Iwanna Vacation and their family.

However, one hiccup in applying a regatta based qualification system to North American sailors is that our Master's events race as a single Standard rig fleet with a rig-swapping rule. We do break out age divisions, but have no way to separate by rig type. So, one has to devise a method which equitiably distributes spots to primarily Radial sailors.

Or we can start sailing Radial fleets at Master Events... but that is another thread entirely...

Anyway, in the past the best qualification systems have been the simplest and most straightforward, and the Aussie hybrid system certainly fits that bill.

Finally, the main reason I'm not convinced we need a "real" qualification system is because, really, there is one overriding factor in determining who goes to these events: who can afford to go. When "off-continent" the cost is not insignificant:
1) Entry fee and charter boat - ~$1000
2) Air fare - depends on how far, but in range of $1500
3) 8-9 days accommodations... quite a range here, but hard to go below another ~$1000
4) New gear for event (new sail, etc.) - ~$600
5) "living costs" (food, transportation, etc., for 8-9 days) ~$500

It is pretty hard to do this, again off-continent, for less than, say, $4000. I bet lots of people spend much more than that, especially when families are in tow. But I bet this is also the main reason why, traditionally, North America sends only around 30-35 sailors to the Master Worlds (when not "local").


Active Member
Thread starter #3
For the most part I am lock step with you on tehe probably don't need it.


I like published guidelines a lot and I know we sometimes need concrete rules and sysems..

In years when every who wants to go can go, there isn't a thing that would be changed by the existence of a system. If the system is made simple and easy to administrate and just sits there sorta kinda in effect all the time...we will not ahve a "bad situation" when we simply don't have a system.

I prefer over prepared to Uh oh.

But I hate excessive control as much as the next guy and damn certain don't want to burden our information gatherers and dispersion professionals with an unnecessary task.

so I'm OK with no system but better with a simple written "when we need it it goes into effect'

I would even be hapy with a disclaimer...It is first come first served unless we overbooik our spaces. If we overbook our spaces we use teh following system to figure out who gets to go.

One reason this solution is fair...even though some might say it switches mid stream?? The requests for an application must be filed over a year ahead of the event. it is only a request until we tally the numbers and see if we need an allocation system for overbooking.

That's simple. And..we may never need to use the system..