Most Appropriate Rig Size?

Pficky

New Member
Hi All,

In the past couple of years I've begun fixing up an old laser that sat in my parent's garage. I have gotten all new rigging for it, except a sail. It only has a Standard rig, and only the standard size spars. I have never even tried sailing anything but the standard rig, but I was wondering if this was a mistake. I am hoping to do a frostbiting series in the spring, and would like to really be competitive, but I am not really sure how I fit in with the boat. I'm 5'7 and 170lbs. I've been told 6 feet and 160 lbs is ideal for the laser, but I am not sure of the credibility of that source. Some opinions would be helpful as I'm planning on buying a new sail soon, and don't want to end up buying something I can't handle!

Thanks!
 
At 170 cm and 77 kg, you're...
  • a bit on the light side but fine for the Standard
  • quite heavy for the Radial
  • slightly overweight for your height, depending on your body fat percentage.
I would say your choice depends on how fit you are. If you're muscular and in good hiking shape, go for the Standard. If you're carrying extra fat, then plan on losing a few kg of it and get a Radial rig.
 
Who will you be able to race against more, Radials or standard? And how windy is it where you sail?
 
Only buy a Radial if it blows hard nearly all the time where you sail because you will be underpowered on light wind days. Wait a few weeks and place an order for the new MKII Standard sail which powers down much better than the old sail. There is much more about this sail on the other forum here or in the September 2015 ILCA Laser World here.
 
The standard rig was designed for 180lbs being the optimal weight. Your weight is good, but your height makes it hard to get that 170lbs outboard. Like others said, if you're in good shape and can hike well you'll be fine. If you've not sailed the laser before a word of caution. This is a very physical boat in really anything over 12 knots of breeze. Make sure you start out slowly in lighter breeze to learn the boat. If you jump in and go straight out in 15-20 you'll end up selling the boat out of frustration and/or fear that it'll kill you.
 
To piggyback on this thread, I'm 5'7" and 155, and would consider myself reasonably athletic. I'm pretty new to lasers, and just ordered the new mk II radial cut standard sail. My question is, can I be competitive in the standard class (assume I can sail)? I'm gonna race either way, but hoping to compete. Racing out of Seattle, so all wind conditions seem likely. I'm pretty much looking for positive reinforcement, but give it to me straight.
Thanks,
Mike
 
Mike, 70 kg + reasonably athletic = perfect for the Radial (with the capital R). If I were you I wouldn't consider the Standard.
 
To piggyback on this thread, I'm 5'7" and 155, and would consider myself reasonably athletic. I'm pretty new to lasers, and just ordered the new mk II radial cut standard sail. My question is, can I be competitive in the standard class (assume I can sail)? I'm gonna race either way, but hoping to compete. Racing out of Seattle, so all wind conditions seem likely. I'm pretty much looking for positive reinforcement, but give it to me straight.
Thanks,
Mike

As someone about your same size, I can race in the full size but I'm not super competitive. About half of that is I'm not super athletic, the other half the loose nut on the tiller. I think if you are athletic and can hike hard, that can go a long way. You're right at the transition between both rigs, and may not find many Radials to sail against depending upon your age. Realistically, you would want to have both rigs.
 
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As someone about your same size, I can race in the full size but I'm not super competitive. About half of that is I'm not super athletic, the other half the loose nut on the tiller. I think if you are athletic and can hike hard, that can go a long way. You're right at the transition between both rigs, and may not find many Radials to sail against depending upon your age. Realistically, you would want to have both rigs.

Thank you Torrid and LaLi,
Sounds like having both would be ideal.
 
My problem (and I have both and I weigh 65 Kg) is that I like the standard rig and can't get on with the radial sail. So I hate the radial and don't use it so there ends up being too many weather conditions I don't bother to do the 1:30 drive each way to sail !!!

I should probably make more effort with the radial and learn how to use it. It's made worse by the lack of consideration many clubs give to the idea of rig swapping (even for masters). One club (and I left that club over this issue) had always treated a Laser as a Laser - so you were allowed to sail with either rig in the series and your result would be your finishing position (no handicaps). Then the Sailing Committee decided that a Radial was a separate class and disallowed radials sailing with the standard rigs !! (Laser fleet was very very anti this, top fleet sailors even wrote to the Sailing Committee threatening to leave - but having decided this loss of face issues prevailed and they refused to change their decision despite the Class Captain quitting, etc.). So I left as the Radial fleet did not provide the competition I needed to improve (I'm not good so sailing with much better people helps me improve). Other clubs treat your Standard rig and Radial rig as different boats (with the same sail number). Some force radials into a handicap fleet and standards get enough to form their own fleet and have their own starts. I would love the Laser Class Association (or somebody) to provide "recommendations" to clubs on this - ideally recommending that the helm should be allowed to rig swap through a series and have the option to be scored based on the faster handicap (i.e. treated as a standard rig whichever rig was used).

How much does the new standard sail broaden the weight range downwards ?
 
That's funny, Deimos - I own both rigs, too, but I always thought the Radial was the nicer one in absolute terms. But I weigh some 20 kg more than you do... so I have never raced it. (Bought it originally so lighter/less experienced people in my club could borrow my boat for educational purposes. Turned out to be a good buy.)

There is surprisingly little data available, but my understanding is that very few sailors are competitive in the Standard below 75 kg. Also, I believe the heaviest (competitive) Radial sailors are about 72-73 kg, so that's where the cutoff point lies. Whether the Mark II Standard will bring any overlap remains to be seen, but it's doubtful. Even if it is easier to depower, the heavier sailors still don't need to do that as much, and are still faster in overpowered conditions.
 

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