Mast Bump...

Sail4SC

Sail4SC

Member
I noticed when I getting up on my center board after death rolling at full speed today.. I had a significant amount of the dreaded "mast bump" showing on my hull. is it worth fixing? what's the best way to repair this? can I just wet sand it out? Re gelcoat maybe? the boat is a lightly used 2006. Fred.. chime in at any time..
 
Most hulls have this mark on them (even brand new ones). You are allowed to repair but not allowed to improve beyond the original finish (which I believe is close to what rule 11 states) so fairing/polishing is not allowed.
 
A new boat should not have imperfections like a "mast bump" on them. Especially since they cost as much as they do. Or other delaminations in the deck etc.. And if the builder or builder's cannot supply boats without major imperfections, the class should allow the owner to make them fair.
 
Getting back to the original issue - having had a couple of new boats and looking at others, the bump can be non-existent when the hull is new (Obviously the hull mould is smooth and fair and does not have the bump built into it) and becomes more pronounced over time/use.

Rule 11 says:
11. HULL FINISH
(a) Waxing, polishing and fine wet and dry sanding
of the hull is permitted, provided the intention and
effect is to polish the hull only. Polishing/sanding
shall not be used to remove mould imperfections.
(b) Sanding and refinishing of the hull with the
intention or effect to lighten the hull or improve the
performance, finish, materials or shape beyond
the original is not permitted.

So, it seems to me like a bit of a interpretation as to whether you would be removing a mould imperfection -or- putting the hull back to how it was originally. I'd argue that it's the second, as the new hull doesn't have the bump..

(This doesn't address the other issue asked, is it worth fixing, which I take to mean, does it affect the performance, which IMHO, if it does, it's way down on the list of things that do, well below a missed shift, bad tack, old sail, warped blade,big scratch in the bottom, weed stuck on the blades and on and on..)
 
My 2009 hull had the bump when it was brand new and never used. Ditto a unused 2010 model I was offered that did nothing but sit in a showroom. This model also had bumps where the aft cockpit wall hit the bottom of the hull and waves and dips where the daggerboard case tabs into the hull. My latest hull- #200405 has the bump and a dent in the aft cockpit wall. I sincerely doubt that these imperfections are in the mold, and if they are, a new mold should be built, but are probably the result of the hull being pulled out too fast before it is cured. In any event, the quality is poor on the most recent 3 years of the boats that i have had or been offered and have been manufactured in the USA RI Plant and if this is the quality of the current hulls, the owners should be allowed to fair them to the quality of say older hulls or Australian hulls..
 
my 2011 hull did not have the bump when I first got it, but it appeared after a few times sailing, once in heavy air. LP needs to get their act together.
 
49208 said:
So, it seems to me like a bit of a interpretation as to whether you would be removing a mould imperfection -or- putting the hull back to how it was originally. I'd argue that it's the second, as the new hull doesn't have the bump..
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As a measurer, it's something I look for and if I boat is presented with that faired where this bump is, I have no issue kicking the boat out of the regatta. I don't agrue with people when I'm measuring.
 
Whether someone will detect a bump is often down to the light and reflectiveness of the hull. People often don't detect the existance of the bump. In reality, the presence of the bump isn't going to impact on your performance and you'd do better do some more mark rounding practice which will have an impact on your performance.
 
How can you know that it is not affecting performance? Let's say you had a hull with these kind of bumps all over - would it be as fast? You will get some turbulence around the bump. The main force to be overcome when sailing is the drag from the hull. A 0,1% increase in drag amounts to 10 meters in a 5nm race. How many boats lost in 10 meters? and you're gonna make that mark rounding mistake anyway - with or without the bump. I suggest that people should use their consumer rights. If you buy a boat without a bump and the bump appears then complain about it using your consumer rights. An independent surveyor may not agree that this is just to be expected and accepted.
 
sprayblond said:
How can you know that it is not affecting performance? Let's say you had a hull with these kind of bumps all over - would it be as fast? You will get some turbulence around the bump. The main force to be overcome when sailing is the drag from the hull. A 0,1% increase in drag amounts to 10 meters in a 5nm race. How many boats lost in 10 meters? and you're gonna make that mark rounding mistake anyway - with or without the bump. I suggest that people should use their consumer rights. If you buy a boat without a bump and the bump appears then complain about it using your consumer rights. An independent surveyor may not agree that this is just to be expected and accepted.
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If your hull has bumps all over then you are allowed to resolve the issues as this is clearly not the 'original finish'. The 'bumps/imperfections' around where the mast tube joins to it are a know thing on a Laser, they all have them. This is because all the hulls are built the same. There is also an imperfection where the hull is not actually true from side to side (this may be an urban legend though).

I am sure it would be very easy to resolve howeer it has not been for a good reason.

I know for a fact that if my boat were ever measured it would likely get binned as it has been faired and sprayed at some point in it's life. However given the age of it and the fact that I am unlikely to ever do an event where I will be measured means it is unlikely to ever become an issue.
 
I find it unfortunate that a boat that cost more than 6000USD has these imperfections when new. I also rather imagine that the ISAF Measurer from AUS rarely finds these problems with boats from his country as I have heard they do not have these issues. Is there not something that ISAF or the ILCA can do to prevent these problems on new boats? Or is there anyway that the class can see to it that other builders can supply their customers with boats at the level of the AUS builder? This is after all a Olympic class. Are all the boats issued to the sailors at the Olympics from the same builder?
 
195427 said:
I find it unfortunate that a boat that cost more than 6000USD has these imperfections when new. I also rather imagine that the ISAF Measurer from AUS rarely finds these problems with boats from his country as I have heard they do not have these issues. Is there not something that ISAF or the ILCA can do to prevent these problems on new boats? Or is there anyway that the class can see to it that other builders can supply their customers with boats at the level of the AUS builder? This is after all a Olympic class. Are all the boats issued to the sailors at the Olympics from the same builder?
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1. For a long time I've stated that the quality control of these boats is below the value of the boat, either the quality should improve for the current price or we are paying to much for the current quality.
2. Australian boats still have the bump although more recent molds the problem has been very minor, but going back 20 years ago the bump was quite significant. If it has become a major issue in other regions, it's a case that the molds in those regions probably need replacement as molds do wear out.
3. In Australia, the presence of the bump these days is largely associated with the layup of the fibreglass and hence associated with the builders manual as the hull is reinforced in that area. IMO, the bump is more optical issue than a physical issue with the current Australian boats, the bump is largely the that reinforced area showing up.
4. From discussions with Clive the class technical officer and the Australian builder, yes all the builders are trying to achieve the same quality of product. They are inspected and discuss quality issue, but the Australian builder I understand would like to see inter-factory training of staff.
5. When boats are supplied for major regattas, all those boats come from the one factory, so in theory the quality of those boats will all be the same.
 
sprayblond said:
How can you know that it is not affecting performance? Let's say you had a hull with these kind of bumps all over - would it be as fast? You will get some turbulence around the bump. The main force to be overcome when sailing is the drag from the hull. A 0,1% increase in drag amounts to 10 meters in a 5nm race. How many boats lost in 10 meters? and you're gonna make that mark rounding mistake anyway - with or without the bump. I suggest that people should use their consumer rights. If you buy a boat without a bump and the bump appears then complain about it using your consumer rights. An independent surveyor may not agree that this is just to be expected and accepted.
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I suspect that the bump would probably cost you quarter of a boat length in a 60 minute race, but considering that typically all your competitors also have the same bump, then their performance is equally affected. Spend your time working on something that you can improve your performance, a bad tack will cost you 4 boat lengths and in a race you might do 25 tacks, that's nearly 400 metres you've given to you competitor that can tack better than you but you're worried over a quarter boat length, which your competitor is also losing.
 
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