Class Politics Mandatory Insurance at Worlds

oldfart

Member
I just received an email from ILCA that states the NOR for worlds requires insurance on a Laser! It states we can buy at worlds for only $200 CAD. That is a rip-off if I've ever seen one. I always thought it was my decision as to whether or not I had insurance or if I was willing to take the low risk of not having and possibly have to pay for damage I may cause out of my pocket. I don't recall doing this at any other major event I have ever attended.
Why is this a requirement? Can all the attendees tell the organizing authority (ILCA and St Margaret's Sailing Club) that we want this requirement eliminated?
 
My take on the insurance thing is about proof of financial responsability.
The fleet will have folks from all over the world and if somebody screws up and causes a ton of damage, it may be difficult or even impossible to collect from that person.

The boats are cheap. A total destruction of a Laser would only cause a $7000 expense.

On the other hand, it is not unimaginable for somebody to screw up and stuff his bow directly into the backbone of another competitor.

Who stands up for the hospital bills?...or worse??

Som somebody came up with a policy...


Did anybody mention the numbers related to the $200 policy?? And...what is the underwriting company and how do we know it is a solid company?
 
I always thought it was my decision as to whether or not I had insurance or if I was willing to take the low risk of not having and possibly have to pay for damage I may cause out of my pocket. I don't recall doing this at any other major event I have ever attended.

I had always considered that the insurance requirement was more about injury or death (you may cause to others) and that the boat damage aspect was something bundled in. Certainly in UK any event will require 3rd party insurance cover (normally to several million £ sterling). And in the worst case disaster I doubt many could afford to pay what a court might award (given the levels of cover provided by insurance companies).

Unsure quite how 3rd party liability insurance is done in the US. In France for example a lot of your 3rd party liability insurance is included with your house insurance so it is less of an issue for many sporting activities.

Ian
 
I am wondering if there is a Laser sailor among us with insurance expertise who would like to comment on this?
 
I can't add much to this discussion, but I have seen that at prestigious European regattas, proof of having something like 1 million (euro) liability coverage is required.
 
The OCR in Miami has required liability insurance for several years now and I've seen it as a requirement for other regattas at times. Is it just a coincidence that this started being a "suggested" requirement after US Sailing started offering insurance policies through one of their sponsors?

If you own a home, you can probably get a rider for personal liability added for little or no cost. Take a copy of the policy with you as proof of 3rd party insurance. You can insure the boat through the US Sailing One Design Program. I used to insure our Star and our Snipe through them, but have not bothered with the Laser. We insure our power boat through Progressive and its pretty cheap. I have that insurance mainly for liability when we work on race committees.

This subject was discussed at an advanced race management seminar I attended last year and there were some interesting observations. The general advise seemed to be that it was not a good idea for the race organizer to require insurance because:
1) It is very difficult to verify that the policies are really valid when there are so many types of 3rd party insurance available. Especially so with sailors from many countries.
2) If someone has the insurance, but you can't verify it, and bar them from racing you make yourself liable for civil action.
3) If you failed to verify everyone's policy or enforce the requirement then you were negligent in not conducting the event according to the NOR. If someone is injured and the responsible person does not in fact have vailid insurance, the injured party rightfully should be able to go after organizer. They may do that anyway, but you have now given them an extra opening.
 
The NOR says "The participating boat is required to hold adequate insurance and in particular to hold insurance against third party claims of at least $1,000,000 CAD". I've got a pretty generic home insurance policy and it includes $1,000,000 liability coverage plus coverage for watercraft that I am using. Check your policy, but chances are that you are already covered.
 
The NOR says "The participating boat is required to hold adequate insurance and in particular to hold insurance against third party claims of at least $1,000,000 CAD". I've got a pretty generic home insurance policy and it includes $1,000,000 liability coverage plus coverage for watercraft that I am using. Check your policy, but chances are that you are already covered.

I'd also check if your policy excludes watercraft being raced.

It's standard for all regattas in Australia for the competitors to have 3rd party insurance. For the period of the regatta, I'm surprised a better deal could not be arranged as $CAN200 would be the equivalent to what I pay annually.
 
Its standard for all UK regattas to insist you have insurance. I think it should be a requirement and I expect everyone to be suitably insured that I race so in the event of any incidents it can all be sorted out quickly and easily.

Its not expensive (about £70) and has saved me a fortune over the years replacing snapped masts, fixing holed boats etc.
 
I'd also check if your policy excludes watercraft being raced.

Good point. Every policy may be different, but in my case it excludes watercraft "used in any race or speed test (except sailboats while racing)".

Our club started requiring insurance about five years ago. Almost all of our members found that they were already covered.
 
In the US, BoatUS has a pretty good low cost liability policy. I pay about a hundred bucks a year for a policy with a decent liability limit that includes coverage while sailboat racing -- not sure it's valid if I leave the US tho.
 
I have a question.
Every laserite must have a insurance on a Laser at HALIFAX MASTER WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP ?

Thanks a lot.

Alex
 
Does anybody know first-hand if a homeowner's umbrella policy would provide coverage for sailboat racing? I tried to insure just my boat a few years ago through USAA. They said they wouldn't cover it if it were used for racing.
 
I have a question.
Every laserite must have a insurance on a Laser at HALIFAX MASTER WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP ?

Thanks a lot.

Alex

The NOR for the Master Worlds (download here) says (see section 22 on "Liability"):

22.6 The participating boat is required to hold adequate insurance and in particular to hold insurance against third party claims of at least $1,000,000 CAD (1 million Canadian Dollars).
 
Does anybody know first-hand if a homeowner's umbrella policy would provide coverage for sailboat racing? I tried to insure just my boat a few years ago through USAA. They said they wouldn't cover it if it were used for racing.

Its probably best to talk to your insurance agent as they could tell you whether your policy will cover you in Halifax (ie outside the US).

My insurance agent told me that, in fact, I am NOT covered (for liability) while racing on a chartered boat outside of the US, but I WOULD be covered if I were racing my own boat -or- if a chartered boat in an event in the US. Very confusing.

He also told me that the US Sailing small boat insurance does cover you (liability and damage) if racing in Canada, the US or Mexico on your own boat or a chartered boat. If you do a lot of racing in North America that may make a lot more sense than buying the insurance offered at the event.

To be sure, I am NOT an insurance agent and it is best to talk to your insurance agent to see what your particular situation is.
 
I wound up going with Gowrie's US Sailing One Design program. The premium was $120 for collision on the boat, and $120 for $1,000,000 worth of liability. It's a much better value that what is being offered at the regatta.
 
I have a separate local policy through Aviva for 100 that covers me for 1m and the boat for damage on inland and coastal waters in the US and Canada.

I posed the question of racing at the worlds on the Ocean to my broker and they confirmed that I am covered.

Half price and includes coverage for the year rather than the week.

Mike
 
Do you not get specialised insurance companies for marine craft in the US? In the UK there are several companies (Noble Marine, Newton Crum etc) that specialise in dinghy insurance. This means their policies include the things you need for racing as standard.
 
I contacted USAA, my homeowners insurance carrier, and was told that my liability did not cover me. Another sailor has gotten confirmation from USAA that he is covered. Not sure what is really true. Anyway, USAA referred me to Markel American Insurance Company and I got the coverage required for $101 for one year. If you are interested, call Julie at 1-866-866-936-1879, ext 3213.

Can't remember ever seeing or hearing of an incident in a Laser event which did, or could have, resulted in a major insurance claim.

What we need to do is make lawyers extinct!! Or at least very rare!::D
 
Got mine all sorted out with AMICA today. They are also sending me an appropriate proof of insurance card for driving in Canada.

If you are driving up you might be well advised to check the status of your auto insurance..

And...health insurance...
 
Looks like the Brits have outdone the Canadians. The NOR for the Masters Worlds in the UK this year calls for 2 million GBP liability insurance. Anybody got any advice on good place to buy this?

By the way, the FAQ on the event website says you need 12 million GBP liability insurance... but I'm hoping that's a mistake?
 
Looks like the Brits have outdone the Canadians. The NOR for the Masters Worlds in the UK this year calls for 2 million GBP liability insurance. Anybody got any advice on good place to buy this?

Pretty standard requirement for any UK regatta or club sailing. My standard insurance for my boat (theft, damage, third party, etc.) has £3m third party cover included. My club requires £2m third party liability cover for normal club racing. When I was in France my French policy covered similar liabilities (and was pretty well Europe wide geographically). I cannot remember any limit on the French policy but it was over the levels required in the UK. I would assume you would be taking out some sort of insurance for sailing in the UK and any UK sailing insurance would include adequate 3rd party liability cover. If you need same UK insurance companies providing cover then let anybody know as there are plenty (take out insurance online, etc.). However, those I know tend to provide policies for 12 months - others might be aware of people offering shorter (and thus cheaper) policies. Alternatively, if this 3rd party liability is a European thing, maybe the organisers are making arrangements (for shorter term policies) so maybe contact or suggest it to them.

By the way, the FAQ on the event website says you need 12 million GBP liability insurance... but I'm hoping that's a mistake?
I would expect £12m is a typo - but as with all these things it is what they have written that is important and not what I might think they might have meant.

Ian
 
As Deimos says, that is the standard insurance requirement for racing in the UK (even at club level). Lots of UK companies (Noble Marine, Newton Crum to name a couple) do specific sailing insurance that meet all the UK requirements, they may be able to help you out if you can't find anywhere else.
 
As Deimos has already pointed out £2million GBP is kind of standard. Pretty much any policy you buy in the UK will come with this as standard. If you cannot get this state side then i suggest you contact one of the UK marine brokers and see if they can do you a short term policy.

I would recommend Noble Marine, not the cheapest but by far the best compnay to deal with (website http://www.noblemarine.co.uk).

I believe we have our American friends compensation culture to thank for this....

Remember £2million will not go that far in litigation, especially if youe little Laser damages or injures someone else......
 
As Deimos has already pointed out £2million GBP is kind of standard. Pretty much any policy you buy in the UK will come with this as standard. If you cannot get this state side then i suggest you contact one of the UK marine brokers and see if they can do you a short term policy.

I would recommend Noble Marine, not the cheapest but by far the best compnay to deal with (website http://www.noblemarine.co.uk).

I believe we have our American friends compensation culture to thank for this....
Remember £2million will not go that far in litigation, especially if youe little Laser damages or injures someone else......

Most Americans would reluctantly agree with you on this.
 

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