Leaking drain hole question

bisonic

New Member
Hi Guys - I'm a Laser repair novice - I was taking on water in my hull and was searching for the leak by pressurizing the hull slightly (I thought...) with the exhaust of a vaccum cleaner. As I found the leak (at the drain hold) there was a sudden bang and the black plastic fitting broke off and shot away. Clearly I put too much pressure in the hull and I'm wondering if I did any damage. There is no apparent damage (I taped the now-empty hole and it sailed fine and was tight and dry). The only thing I notice is that the hole thru the cockpit and hull seems slightly misalligned and I think the two parts are not bonded together (are they supposed to be??

I am planning on getting a new brass fitting and installing it with silicone. Anything else I need to do?

Thanks!
 
Yeah there certainly is..

You have to deternime if your hull is still attached to your cockpit. if it is not and if you simply put in that sleeve, you will probably tear a hole in either the hull or the deck as the sleeve tears through.

restating...Think of the sleeve as a big bolt and nut. The head and the nut are not all that wide. the glass laminate is thin. If you pull on the hull and deck and they can move separatly, the head of that "bolt or the nut" will simply wallow its way through the laminate.


So...What to do??

maybe suspend the hull by the gunwales and then reach in and bounce the cockpit up and down. If the two sides of the hole slide all over each other...you know it is bad.


So..The cockpit floor was originally bedded in three wads of the same stuff they used to bond the gunwales.

The two back corners of the cockpit and the bailer drain hole were originally well bonded to the hull.

How??

The bonding putty is a lot like butter that has been left out overnight or Crisco. They slopped about a gallon of the stuff where they thought the cockpit corners would land and more where the through hull drain would go.

They also slathered some on the top of the centerboard trunk, a wad in the mast stepdonut, and a bunch all around the perimeter of the hull. Then they squashed the deck in place.

Your problem?? How do you slather more good stuff between the hull and the cockpit floor and then squish it all back together??

I suggest you put an access port dead center right behind the traveler cleat.

Then look inside and figure out how to get some Epoxy bonding material between the layers and all around the cockpit drain hole....

Then use regular old fiberglass and polyester resin to "tab" the hull to the deck anywhere you can reach to do that.

sand first with some 40 grit paper. Most automotive supply shos carry green Corps by 3m. Grab a $5 package and have at it.

if you can push teh hull down an inch and slide teh paper between the parts???Great ! that will make your repair stick!!!

The process is similar to the repair around a mast tube and there are photos somewhere on my website under general sailboat repairs or laser repairs..its too late and I am falling asleep typing.
 
Ugh - I was afraid of that! Sounds like it's not that difficult to do once one gets to it though. Thanks for your prompt reply and wish me luck!
 
I have some similar issues, short of blown out fittings :eek: Some background, my wife and I each have old lasers, mine is 99947 and hers is about 7xxxx (exact number escapes me at the moment). Both have dry, secure maststeps for now, so I plan on doing the repair posted on the Laser Maintenance site as a preventative measure (a fantastic resource BTW).

Back to drain holes, her boat leaks much more than mine, my boat is actually remarkably dry for an 81’ I’ve eliminated her leaks at the stern plug and at the screw hole for her auto bailer. But there’s a remaining leak that seems exactly like bisonics issue. The sleeve can wiggle just a bit, also the cockpit moves under my feet. On my boat the drain hole and sleeve are secure and seem dry, but I also have movement in my cockpit which I suspect is also moving or separating from the deck.

So this winter I plan on doing the mast step repair and the drain plug / cockpit to deck joint repairs to both boats. Cosmetic repairs and painting could be down the road, perhaps when we get dollys. But these two repairs seem to be necessary for structural integrity, so they get priority.

I’ve been surfing the maintenance sites and this forum all week and have all the info I need for the mast step repair and gouvernail’s above post nails addresses most of the drain plug / cockpit to deck joint repair. Here are many specific, nitpicky questions:

-Does anyone have pictures of a plug / cockpit to deck joint repair? Some before and after shots would help before I get started.

-Inspection ports, few questions here and they are really nitpicky, but I figure before I start cutting:
- Placement of the maststep port, I’ve seen different pics posted here, is there any good place to put that port? Directly aft of mast step at center or off to the side?
- I plan on a Viking 5” port next to the centerboard for a bag and or bottle port (these are cottage boats after all) While I’m Swiss-Cheesing the deck should I just add another and go on each side of the centerboard trunk for better access to the front underside of the cockpit? Can I get at any deck/hull joints from those ports?
- For the maststep port and aft traveler cleat port I’m considering a larger 6” Sea Dog ports for easier access, it’s been 15 years since I worked on my first laser when I did the one arm repairs through a hole in the deck. Would 1” more make life easier or am I pretty much effed?

- Floatation, again these are 79’ and 81’ lasers, does anyone know the type of floatation used in these? Will I be doing the one armed sawing of water logged Styrofoam?


-What brand of Epoxy bonding material for between cockpit floor and hull is recommended?

-On my boat I only suspect hull to cockpit separation based on the cockpit floor moving under my feet. Is investigating the need for that repair worth another hole? Or again since it’s an old cottage cruiser should I just hole the deck behind the traveler cleat and check it out anyway?

-Tools:
- Cutting out the ports, saw or router?
- For the various tasks on the road ahead I have: rotary dremel, drill, saw, router, screwdrivers, sand paper, resin mixing and dispensing goodies. Is there anything I’d be foolish not to add to that list?


Any input on any of these questions you folks may have would be great. I’m off to the Red Fox regatta now so everyone have a safe and fun holiday weekend.
 
Here are some pix that I took while at Laser Performance. I got a tour of the factory and took some snaps of a Laser with the hull cut away that should aid you if you need to fix an older boat.
 

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The boat was hanging from the ceiling and the pix are from below. The bottom port quarter was cut away so you could get an idea on how they glued the boat together.
 

- Placement of the maststep port, I’ve seen different pics posted here, is there any good place to put that port? Directly aft of mast step at center or off to the side?

Off to the side is preferred - above 45 degree angle

- I plan on a Viking 5” port next to the centerboard for a bag and or bottle port (these are cottage boats after all) While I’m Swiss-Cheesing the deck should I just add another and go on each side of the centerboard trunk for better access to the front underside of the cockpit? Can I get at any deck/hull joints from those ports?

One should be enough. The main problem with this location is your knee tends to land right on the port at times, breaking the port or port cover..

- For the maststep port and aft traveler cleat port I’m considering a larger 6” Sea Dog ports for easier access, it’s been 15 years since I worked on my first laser when I did the one arm repairs through a hole in the deck. Would 1” more make life easier or am I pretty much effed?

If you want to stay class legal, you need to observe the following rule on port diameter
20. INSPECTION PORTS
Inspection ports not exceeding 153 mm internal diameter
may be installed on the deck or in the cockpit to provide
access to the hull cavity, provided that any inspection
port is fitted with watertight threaded covers (any bayonet
mounted parts are deemed to be not threaded). Storage
receptacles are permitted underneath hatch covers.

IIRC, a typical 6" is too big by class rules... The additional inch isn't that beneficial unless you have Popeye forearms. Cut the hole, do all the work and then install the port will maximize the dia of the hole while you are working...

- Floatation, again these are 79’ and 81’ lasers, does anyone know the type of floatation used in these? Will I be doing the one armed sawing of water logged Styrofoam?
No styro - it'll be the cubitainers

-What brand of Epoxy bonding material for between cockpit floor and hull is recommended?
West, System Three, MAS are all good epoxies IMHO, however don't rule out good old polyester either.. The most important thing is the surface prep - sanding and getting rid of the surface contaniments by wiping down with acetone is key. Fiberglass mat for the tabbing

-On my boat I only suspect hull to cockpit separation based on the cockpit floor moving under my feet. Is investigating the need for that repair worth another hole? Or again since it’s an old cottage cruiser should I just hole the deck behind the traveler cleat and check it out anyway?
IMHO, the rear deck.. You can thru bolt the rear hiking strap eyes and thru bolt the inboard trav eyes (a couple spots that are know to pull out on older boats if the plywood backing gets wet and rots..
-Tools:
- Cutting out the ports, saw or router?
- For the various tasks on the road ahead I have: rotary dremel, drill, saw, router, screwdrivers, sand paper, resin mixing and dispensing goodies. Is there anything I’d be foolish not to add to that list?
Jig saw works fine for the hole cutting..
shop vac comes in handy for dealing with all the dust. Cheap tyvec painters jumpsuit to prevent the itchies, along with a box of disposable gloves. Acetone to wipe down/clean surfaces. 3M filtered respirator is a plus or a case of beer (or both :D )
 
Sell the hull and get another one.

It’s ok. Both the boats can sail just fine as they sit right now (one just needs to get drained once an hour :D), they are just for fun. The plan is just to make them tougher. I’m under no illusions that they are or could ever be competitive, that’s not the intention. Besides for both the boats and a trailer we spent $800. $400 each actually, I could have got a second trailer too but I passed on it when I got mine as I have no place to keep it.

If I ever were to start racing lasers again I’d buy a much newer one.
 
The boat was hanging from the ceiling and the pix are from below. The bottom port quarter was cut away so you could get an idea on how they glued the boat together.


Those pics are perfect, thanks.


49208, thanks for the input also.
 
Hello Bio and Glex:

Below find a link to a thread which shows how I addressed this very same problem with my 1979 boat. There are a number of pictures and a description of the method and materials I used. West System is my choice for epoxy. It appears to be a problem on boats of this vintage because the builder originally used a P.O.S. plastic thru-hull bushing which eventually broke. Gouvernail makes an important point in that you cannot just replace the bushing because the boat will still flex and eventually crack the hull around the recessed area where it meets the cockpit drain. This is exactly what happened to my friend's 1980 boat about a year after I did my repair, so we knew exactly what to do. The only other thing I would add is that this project will go a lot easier if you put in two inspection ports - one on each side of the centerline.

http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=6507&highlight=1979+separation

If you want to see the three attachment points for the aft cockpit bulkhead, below find a link to a thread which has some great pics of a completely disassembled boat. There are 6 photos at the bottom, and it is the one on the lower right.

http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=8106&highlight=deck+the+hulls

Good luck, I'm sure it'll come out fine. Post if you have any other questions.
 

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