laser tiller

sailingmania

sailingmania

New Member
i have just brought a nice laser but the only thing is it has an aluminium tiller (a fat one) wich is a bit old and naf. i was thinking of buying a new one does anyone have any suggestions as to which is best for money? i looked on laser direct and a carbon slimline tiller was £150! is this cheap? or not? and does any one know cheaper better websites/shops (in the uk south cost) i am after the tiller and the tiller extension.

thank you.
 
the carbon tiller you mentioned on the laser depot page looks to me to be the same as the carbon tiller provided in the 2008 laser xd package. i would strongly suggest looking at other tillers. i have seen some around and they are in now way a low profile. they have a height that is close to equal with an aluminum tiller. i have a acme carbon tiller and think its the best i have seen. some of the older rooster carbon tillers with the roller had a higher profile and i do not know much about the current ones. black diamond also makes a quality carbon tiller.
 
I had 2 carbon tillers from laser direct (both died very quickly). Bought a rooster carbon tiller in 2005 and it is still going strong. Would definitely recommend their carbon tillers, well worth the money as last so well.
 
I have used the same Rooster tiller and extension since 2000 with no problem at all. The extensions come in various diameters so it's worth trying the different sizes to see which suits your hand size. I've got an oval section which I find helps with holding the main sheet.
If your on the south coast Rooster is in Emsworth, or have a look round the dinghy show in March.
 
gordo said:
the carbon tiller you mentioned on the laser depot page looks to me to be the same as the carbon tiller provided in the 2008 laser xd package. i would strongly suggest looking at other tillers. i have seen some around and they are in now way a low profile. they have a height that is close to equal with an aluminum tiller. i have a acme carbon tiller and think its the best i have seen. some of the older rooster carbon tillers with the roller had a higher profile and i do not know much about the current ones. black diamond also makes a quality carbon tiller.
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Acme and Black Diamond are the same thing.

http://www.acmecarbon.com/about.html
 
how can people justify to themselves spending £150+ on a carbon tiller? what are the avantages other than it looks shiny :eek: I've got an old sliver alloy one and dont have any trouble with it. Anyone care to enlighten me?
 
We have a fellow in our fleet that used a vice and simply squashed his aluminum tiller where the traveler goes over it. Its just as stiff as it originally was and now the same height as the carbon models where it counts.
 
foxy said:
We have a fellow in our fleet that used a vice and simply squashed his aluminum tiller where the traveler goes over it. Its just as stiff as it originally was and now the same height as the carbon models where it counts.
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The tiller has to be a straight line on top. As you may only push teh bottom up, squashing a pipe tiller doesn't help at all.
 
The tiller has to be a straight line on top. As you may only push teh bottom up, squashing a pipe tiller doesn't help at all.

Please explain further

Steve
 
gouvernail said:
The tiller has to be a straight line on top. As you may only push teh bottom up, squashing a pipe tiller doesn't help at all.
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I was just about to question the class legality of this (although it is unlikely that anyone would protest you for it).

Personally having looked at the Laser XD and Fatso and having used the Rooster in my last 4 boats (3 lasers and 1 Blaze extension only). I Love the feel of a carbon tiller and extemsion when sailing. There is no weight to it so you know that what you are feeling is the resistance on the helm. That and you can get the traveller much lower and tighter meaning you can get more leech tension.

Yes the Rooster is expensive (not sure how it compares to toher carbon tillers) but I will happily pay it! To me it is akin to paying the extra £30 or so for the Harken vang assembly as opposed to the Holt one!
 
gouvernail said:
The tiller has to be a straight line on top. As you may only push teh bottom up, squashing a pipe tiller doesn't help at all.
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Leave it to a class that proports to save us money with strict one design, to SQUASH a cheap solution to buying an expensive "optional" part!
 
A MUCH less expensive alternative that I intend to try for the tiller is a piece of 1.5" x .75" x .125" rectangular aluminum tubing (appx $14 plus shipping). And a very nice lightweight extension that I've used on another boat is a graphite golf club shaft. Probably free from your local golf repair shop.
 
in the past i have seen people use a piece of a composite hockey stick for a tiller. low and quite strong. will also be free and if you pick it up from most rinks after they are broken.
 
gordo said:
in the past i have seen people use a piece of a composite hockey stick for a tiller. low and quite strong. will also be free and if you pick it up from most rinks after they are broken.
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Just to clarify this. He is talking about Ice Hockey here and nor Field Hockey. Field Hockey stick generally have a bow in them so are not suitable.

For extensions I have also been told that carbon landing net handles are good and pretty cheap (£20 or so) you just need the fittings so could end up saving a fortune. I am just lazy and had the money at the time so i bought all Rooster.
 
[email protected] said:
A MUCH less expensive alternative that I intend to try for the tiller is a piece of 1.5" x .75" x .125" rectangular aluminum tubing (appx $14 plus shipping). And a very nice lightweight extension that I've used on another boat is a graphite golf club shaft. Probably free from your local golf repair shop.
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While not low-profile this is very inexpensive and replaces the standard wooden tiller nicely. I used the link at the bottom to make an aluminum tiller from 1-inch square tubing from Home Depot (~$12usd) and, I believe, was 8 feet long (enough for two tillers). You have to make sure it is AL tubing and not AL pipe. Tubing has thin walls. Cut it to the proper length. Plug the ends with wood or plastic. I used UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight) plastic. I riveted my tiller extension onto the tiller. Install the rudder rope cleat. Drill a hole for the cotter pin in the rudder head and camber the bottom end (with air cut-off tool, and sanded) that fits into the rudder for better fit. Other persons have sanded a little on the rudder end of the tiller so it would fit into the rudder head.

What you end up with is an ultra-light tiller with zero-play for about $6. It really helped me gain a better feel for the boat and it helped me to steer with my weight rather than the rudder. You might invest in a fancy tiller extension.

Here are more tiller and extension ideas:
http://grotr4.tripod.com/tillers/

Cheers,

Phil (Laser newbie, cat sailor for 20+ years) Smith
 
Have used a super light low profile rectangular aluminium section tiller with an internal circular aluminium tube stiffener (riveted only at cleat and thru bolted at extension joint) This workde well and laste a long time (need some pinch pleat metal working skills to get the tiller head section to fit well in the rudder head but easy with a vice and chisel)

Now have a Black Diamond carbon tiller which is even lighter - but a fiddle to optimise rudder head angle and closest proximity to deck/without hitting deck traveller cleat when using high traveller tension.

Some people cut away the bottom part of standard aluminium tillers (below where the exension joint is fixed and above the traveller cleat so the whole thing can be set closer to the deck and still not knock on the cleat.
 
jeffers said:
I was just about to question the class legality of this (although it is unlikely that anyone would protest you for it).
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You might not get protested, but unless the top surface is flat, it won't / shouldn't get through measurement.

Squashing it is something interesting to think about. I've been making my own aluminium tillers for 20 years and I'm starting to think about a Rooster tiller. While I acknowledge you'll obtain more leach tension with a tighter vang, my reasons for not going down the carbon fibre path is because of the number that break. In my opinion, it's better to sacrifice a touch of speed, for the sake of finishing the race.
 
I've been questioning how much you really gain with the slightly lower tiller. Seems like the bottom of the block hits the deck a little short of full out. The advantage looks to me more like the block not catching so badly on the tiller in a light air tack.
 
I'm with foxy here, I have the standard round aluminium tiller and though when i pull the traveller on as tight as i can the blocks catch on the tiller, if I release it a little bit it moves easily and the block stays in the corner anyway. Once the traveller block sits right on the traveller fairlead when block to block upwind there is no need for any more tension.
 
Mattcm said:
I'm with foxy here, I have the standard round aluminium tiller and though when i pull the traveller on as tight as i can the blocks catch on the tiller, if I release it a little bit it moves easily and the block stays in the corner anyway. Once the traveller block sits right on the traveller fairlead when block to block upwind there is no need for any more tension.
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I agree with everything you said, but you neglected to mention the propulsive qualities of carbon fiber. CF is well known lift things up and propel them forward, which is why fast, light-weight vehicles ranging from exotic airplanes to F1 cars to AC yachts are made from it. A commonly made mistake, though, is to install said carbon components backwards, which actually impedes forward progress of the vessel by reversing the propulsion.
 
Beachcomber said:
I agree with everything you said, but you neglected to mention the propulsive qualities of carbon fiber. CF is well known lift things up and propel them forward, which is why fast, light-weight vehicles ranging from exotic airplanes to F1 cars to AC yachts are made from it. A commonly made mistake, though, is to install said carbon components backwards, which actually impedes forward progress of the vessel by reversing the propulsion.
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Huh? My spidey sense tells me that you are pulling my legs (all 8 of 'em).
 
Beachcomber said:
I agree with everything you said, but you neglected to mention the propulsive qualities of carbon fiber. CF is well known lift things up and propel them forward, which is why fast, light-weight vehicles ranging from exotic airplanes to F1 cars to AC yachts are made from it. A commonly made mistake, though, is to install said carbon components backwards, which actually impedes forward progress of the vessel by reversing the propulsion.
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I'm not sure what you are talking about here but I do think that the carbon tiller is good but I think the difference between it and a standard aluminium tiller is enough to justify it being an essential upgrade to me.

IMO, it would be the last upgrade I would get once I am good enough to use the benifit of better feel due to the better stiffness.
Right now I am only a teenager and still growing and learning which will have 100 times more improvement than any gear.
 
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