Laser Team Racing
- Thread starter LuckyJack
- Start date
Merrily
Administrator
We tried it once at my club. It takes a bit of planning with math beforehand. Yes, it was fun.
sprayblond
Member
Suggestion sent to ISAF:
The fundamental problems with regards to sailing as a spectator sport are well described in the report. Unfortunately, the proposed solutions will not, in my opinion solve the problems. Even high performance dinghies such as 49er do not make good spectator sports, and even less so in low wind strength conditions.
The solution in my opinion is to identify one discipline which can generate significant interest and use this to generate interest for other disciplines, dinghies and events.
The one underdeveloped event is in my opinion Team Racing. However, NOT as team racing is done normally in double handed boats and three boats per team.
Instead Olympic team racing would have to be in single handed boats. The format I propose is outlined below:
Laser Radial, 4 sailors per team, two men and two women. Most nations will have half a team on site already in the male and female laser sailor. Several teams may want to use the sailors in other boats since a number of them will have significant experience from lasers. Sails in different colors or with flags. Tracking to determine continuously which nation has the lead.
Team racing satisfies a number of the requirements identified in the report. Spectator sport, easy to understand, short races(10 - 12 minutes), instant decision - no protests, gender equality(in fact, using radials, the lighter women would have and advantage under normal conditions and would have to "rescue" men in their teams once they got covered). Low cost, out of box. Possibility for audience and stadium, close to shore sailing - always!. Quite independent of wind strength (important in Rio - hardly any wind in August!). Fight between nations, always fascinating.Possibility for close-ups of athletes. Good exposure for brands.
My suggestion is that ISAF try to have team racing as an event at laser worlds or World Cup as soon as possible and as a trial event at 2012 olympics.
The best part of it - it will be a lot of fun for the sailors - something the spectators will sense!
Good luck!
Best regards
The fundamental problems with regards to sailing as a spectator sport are well described in the report. Unfortunately, the proposed solutions will not, in my opinion solve the problems. Even high performance dinghies such as 49er do not make good spectator sports, and even less so in low wind strength conditions.
The solution in my opinion is to identify one discipline which can generate significant interest and use this to generate interest for other disciplines, dinghies and events.
The one underdeveloped event is in my opinion Team Racing. However, NOT as team racing is done normally in double handed boats and three boats per team.
Instead Olympic team racing would have to be in single handed boats. The format I propose is outlined below:
Laser Radial, 4 sailors per team, two men and two women. Most nations will have half a team on site already in the male and female laser sailor. Several teams may want to use the sailors in other boats since a number of them will have significant experience from lasers. Sails in different colors or with flags. Tracking to determine continuously which nation has the lead.
Team racing satisfies a number of the requirements identified in the report. Spectator sport, easy to understand, short races(10 - 12 minutes), instant decision - no protests, gender equality(in fact, using radials, the lighter women would have and advantage under normal conditions and would have to "rescue" men in their teams once they got covered). Low cost, out of box. Possibility for audience and stadium, close to shore sailing - always!. Quite independent of wind strength (important in Rio - hardly any wind in August!). Fight between nations, always fascinating.Possibility for close-ups of athletes. Good exposure for brands.
My suggestion is that ISAF try to have team racing as an event at laser worlds or World Cup as soon as possible and as a trial event at 2012 olympics.
The best part of it - it will be a lot of fun for the sailors - something the spectators will sense!
Good luck!
Best regards
3x3 team racing has 3 basic winning combos, god knows how many there are in 4x4. Opti kids have to write them all down so they can remember.
You want simple and exciting with Lasers do 2x2. Easy to know who's winning in that.
Personally I wouldn't do team racing in anything but doublehanded boats.
Team racing is so much better in fireflys than lasers, you can split sailing and tactics between the helm and crew, you have a jib you can flap on people, they are more maneuverable as well IMHO.
As has been said 3x3 team racing is complicated enough for spectators, 4x4 would be almost impossible. Team racing isnt as spectator friendly as it appears, no sailing/non team racing audiences find it hard to understand the tactics involved and fair to understand sometimes why boats are slowing down on legs or deliberately losing places, its similar to match racing in that respect.
As has been said 3x3 team racing is complicated enough for spectators, 4x4 would be almost impossible. Team racing isnt as spectator friendly as it appears, no sailing/non team racing audiences find it hard to understand the tactics involved and fair to understand sometimes why boats are slowing down on legs or deliberately losing places, its similar to match racing in that respect.
I will second the previous two posts. Team racing can be fun, but won't attract a non-sailing audience.
In fact, I find the whole idea of making sailing a spectator sport, although trendy, wishful thinking.
PS: I will eat my words if the next America's Cup, in cats with wing sails, will find a wider than usual audience.
In fact, I find the whole idea of making sailing a spectator sport, although trendy, wishful thinking.
PS: I will eat my words if the next America's Cup, in cats with wing sails, will find a wider than usual audience.
fat-n-old
Member
I also echo the sentements of the previous posts...Team racing can be great fun.
In the UK, the NSSA (national school sailing association) run an annual single handed 3x3 team racing tournement in Toppers. 90+ kids involoved. It is a great spectacle and does attract interested (but non sailing) spectators. I would love to see this format in the Olympics.
However....AC....Huge cats with fixed wings is so far removed from the sport I love, I can only see it turning existing fans away rather than broadening its appeal.
In the UK, the NSSA (national school sailing association) run an annual single handed 3x3 team racing tournement in Toppers. 90+ kids involoved. It is a great spectacle and does attract interested (but non sailing) spectators. I would love to see this format in the Olympics.
However....AC....Huge cats with fixed wings is so far removed from the sport I love, I can only see it turning existing fans away rather than broadening its appeal.
sprayblond
Member
I think it is too pessimistic to say that sailing will never be a spectator sport. Look at biathlon. A few years ago nobody knew about the aport. Today they draw hundreds of thousands to look at skiing and shooting indoors. The point being that the sport/product needs to be developed to have appeal. I think tracking should make it possible to keep track of the positions at all times. Sails in different colors will make it easy to distinguish the sailors. Tackticks are not really that difficult to explain given commentators with some knowledge. Format must be 4x4 since the rule that the team with a first place looses when points are equal creates so many opportunities to turn the match around. 3x3 on the other hand is in comparison much more a race to have a first and second place.
4x4 is so confusing though, even to the sailors. 3x3 you aim for 3 plays and that's it. 2x2 is even simpler (last boat loses). Forget the single rule about first place tiebreakers.
I like this video, pretty much sums it up.
I live not far from West Kirby marine lake where they race the Wilson Trophy every year, last few years I have gone down just to watch. Its done in Firefly's (in fact I think its probably keeping the class alive), with good tracking and a decent commentator it wouldn't be too difficult to to follow. I am thinking of rugby and nfl on respective sides of the pond (both sports I really enjoy and have quite complex rule books to a first time watcher). I personally would stick with the 3x3 as it leads to a few but not too many outcomes. 4x4 wouldn't be definative and would allow draws I think, 2x2 is too much like sudden death.
Unless your sailing or the conditions are short on un-sailable then the high performance boats 49ers et al are dull as dishwater. OK they are good watching them go so fast, however in the same way an F1 car goes fast around a track fast, but then gets a bit dull as there is nothing exciting about watching a precession around the course. In no wind there even worse, like watching tractors on a single track lane.......
The previous post talks about the Americas Cup debacle. I read that a few days ago as well on BBC that it was to be raced in wing rigged multihulls, what a shame and what a waste. I really enjoyed the one before last with the Louise Vitton and finding the challenger and then last year it was awful and I cant see the next one any better. It has to be monohulls and I would even go towards saying make all boats standard one design so it the crews that make the difference.
Or even........
3x3 Team Racing in something like a Melges 24 or small yachts with <10 Crew. That would be good.
Unless your sailing or the conditions are short on un-sailable then the high performance boats 49ers et al are dull as dishwater. OK they are good watching them go so fast, however in the same way an F1 car goes fast around a track fast, but then gets a bit dull as there is nothing exciting about watching a precession around the course. In no wind there even worse, like watching tractors on a single track lane.......
The previous post talks about the Americas Cup debacle. I read that a few days ago as well on BBC that it was to be raced in wing rigged multihulls, what a shame and what a waste. I really enjoyed the one before last with the Louise Vitton and finding the challenger and then last year it was awful and I cant see the next one any better. It has to be monohulls and I would even go towards saying make all boats standard one design so it the crews that make the difference.
Or even........
3x3 Team Racing in something like a Melges 24 or small yachts with <10 Crew. That would be good.
sprayblond
Member
Well I think the opti video illustrates the intensity of team racing nicely. Imagine this scene not with inexperienced opti sailors, but with Ainslie, Goodison, Tunnicliff, Ayton etc. instead. Would they be confused about the scoring and combinations? I don't think so. Would it be exciting to watch?
The Wilson trophy is an example of a great team racing event and is about as spectator friendly as a team racing event will ever get I think. West Kirby's marine lake is basically a perfect venue for spectators who can surround the action from all sides and I think in some years they even put up stands with loudspeakers for commentary.
Also the firefly class is not being kept alive by team racing but Rondar (the builder) probably is, going to the nationals this year there were only a few uni/team racing team boats, the majority were old guys in lovingly maintained wooden versions. so i'd imagine almost all new boat orders Rondar get come in batches of 6.
Also the firefly class is not being kept alive by team racing but Rondar (the builder) probably is, going to the nationals this year there were only a few uni/team racing team boats, the majority were old guys in lovingly maintained wooden versions. so i'd imagine almost all new boat orders Rondar get come in batches of 6.
The most exciting Olympic sailing I have seen was watching Ainslie tie Scheidt in knots in the Sydney 2000 Medal Race, proper edge of your seat nail biting tension. Thats what team racing would give you...... hopefully. A test of sailing skill, speed and teamwork with the odd collision 
.
The Wilson Trophy proves you can bring it 'inland' and have great spectator inclusion.
The praise must go to West Kirby Sailing Club for putting on a fantastic event.
It would be good for TV too as you could have fixed TV cameras (better than having a helicoptor way above) even have small cameras on the boats so you can get pictures from 'inside' the action showing the skill of the sailors. If you table the boat Oxford/Cambridge boat race on the Thames, the best pictures ar always from the onboard camera that put you in the thinck of the gladitorial battle between the teams.
The fact that you only get a few Uni Team Racing boats and a handful of old well kept boats at Firefly nationals seems to prove my point about the class. As for Rondar they also produce the PinBax FRP Enterprise which is in increasing demand as the SpeedSails boat is poorly built. Think they build other boats too (I think they are contracted for the new Graduate aren't they?)
.The Wilson Trophy proves you can bring it 'inland' and have great spectator inclusion.
The praise must go to West Kirby Sailing Club for putting on a fantastic event.
It would be good for TV too as you could have fixed TV cameras (better than having a helicoptor way above) even have small cameras on the boats so you can get pictures from 'inside' the action showing the skill of the sailors. If you table the boat Oxford/Cambridge boat race on the Thames, the best pictures ar always from the onboard camera that put you in the thinck of the gladitorial battle between the teams.
The fact that you only get a few Uni Team Racing boats and a handful of old well kept boats at Firefly nationals seems to prove my point about the class. As for Rondar they also produce the PinBax FRP Enterprise which is in increasing demand as the SpeedSails boat is poorly built. Think they build other boats too (I think they are contracted for the new Graduate aren't they?)
fat-n-old
Member
Not sure about the Graduate but Rondar def make Ents, Larks and 420s.
Speeds is not far from me...i'm pretty sure the're not making any boats anymore.
I heard they were in trouble a few months ago, have they folded?