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joe c

banned
not much to show. installed the bottle ports. i located them there to get to the deck gunwhale area where im installing the cams and fairleads for the spin sheets just above. also, surprisingly there is no existing blocking for the main sheet cleats! so ill put in some sealed up ply and pull those up and rebed them with a backer. one step forward, two back, ill use the same backer for the spin sheet cleat. if anyone has an dimensions or advice for setting those up....im all ears. im not sure it matters much since the sheet runs along the rail more or less then has to make the turn through the fairlead. and since it runs through there....it probably dosnt matter too much where thats located as long as the cleat is in a good location. so i just figure to line them up like i see in most of the photos just a bit forward of the mainsheet cam.

i also want to try and get some blocking in between the hull and cockpit floor. we're 2 fat guys in there and its a bit bouncy sometimes. or woulld foam be a better solution? so my autopsy of the other hull was helpful for me and i think i can fit pieces in and around and under. i should be able to figure our where i need that blocking and get it where the halyard blocks will go.

the blue bungee with the fittings with the sheet rock screws goes next. left over from the previous owner. i discovered the rooster small halyard bag so thats ordered up. i think im going to industrial velcro that on. they want you to use screws but i dont like things like that permanently mechanically fastened. so we'll see.

other wise i pulled all the old lighting and wiring off the trailer this weekend and replaced all of that. so finally can get that inspected this week and permanent registration done. yay... did some compounding on the hull to clean up some oxidation. i havent had it out from under the cover for a couple of months. needs a good bath again. IMG_20220306_182129.jpgIMG_20220306_182123.jpg
 

joe c

banned
im in the middle of sourcing and ordering the cleat for the spin halyard for the cockpit floor. ive seen clams and cams. my thought is go harken cam with the built in fairlead. id think the carbo would be within working limits.(?) i think itd pull out of the deck at over 150lbs. but i guess im trying to figure out if i should go with the extreme angle fairlead or the normal one. i could order both kits i spose. or is the clamcleat with the fairlead the way to go? ive seen those but i feel like recleating it wouldnt be as easy and probably way more potential for accidental cleating when retrieving. ive just never used one in a standing position so no idea which is easier to use. maybe its a personal preference thing.

i finally got the spin pole from selden. ordered through intensity. it took 5+ weeks! jim was pretty cool about me bugging him, but he had them listed on his website as "in stock". which they were not. he ordered it from selden and they didnt have the ends for the pole so they were waiting for that. before i ordered, about a month or so before, i emailed him about a shipping estimate since i knew the pole was 8ft long. he said he thought about 75bucks. which i was totally cool with. even if it would have been 100 i would have been ok with it. so one morning i wake up to a paid invoice email for the pole, (it was 179 bucks) and shipping. the shipping was $168!. drop shipped from south carolina to baltimore. kinda disappointing but hey, i finally have the stupid thing. i swear im tethering this thing to my crew. if they some how drop this thing overboard this summer hes going in after it. lol and it turns out jim has taken them off the website. im guessing the poles have gone way up in cost and he probably took a bit of a bath on it. i was going to run down to fed ex and get a shipping cost for it but was too lazy. i have as much in rigging the spinnaker as the entire boat cost. haha.
 
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LaLi

Well-Known Member
If you go Harken Micro with the spinnaker halyard cleat, you might as well go aluminium instead of composite. Takes more wear and tear.
A "Flairlead" is the optimal fairlead on top of the cleat:
images.jpeg
No need for the fancier ones as you're not pulling the line sideways. You should instead have a separate aft fairlead some 10 cm behind the cleat, such as the Allen A4152:
allen-bullseye-fairlead-with-ss-liner-13mm-a4152-2-pack-3001553-0-1389728562000.jpg

You may need a riser under the cleat for the line to cleat properly.

The standard cleat on the European boats was a Holt Allen cleat with an integrated aft fairlead. It was a bit hard to release, and it's not made anymore. The North American boats had an RWO "Lance cleat" on the mast.

This is not a place for a Clamcleat.

there is no existing blocking for the main sheet cleats! so ill put in some sealed up ply and pull those up and rebed them with a backer. one step forward, two back, ill use the same backer for the spin sheet cleat. if anyone has an dimensions or advice for setting those up....im all ears.
Are you sure there are no backing plates between the skins? As for location, you're probably already familiar with this diagram:
rulesdiagram1.gif

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joe c

banned
Yep yep and yep..yeah....the other cam is like 5 bucks more. But I was thinking over kill..but sure. I have watched the croker vid about 87 times and yeah...you can see that stainless fairlead aft of that cleat and my initial thoughts were "that looks like a pain in the ass". And there are 2 fairleads on the cockpit floor forward of that cleat.

I have a bunch of those flairleads already. Lol.

And yeah, I was thinking a riser might be needed too..since it'll run to a block a little higher up on the transom. Plus easier to grab.
Harken-470-Micro-Cam-Matic-with-X-Treme-Angle-Fairlead-Kit_1.jpgHarken-498-Micro-Cam-Matic-with-Fast-Release-Fairlead-Kit_1.jpg
There is a bump in the deck that looks like there's blocking there. I guess I'll find out when I install the new cleats. If there is it's really thin. One cleat had gotten loose so I moved it over and down a tiny bit..but the screws that loosened seemed to have nothing..hmmm...

I ordered a tape to attach to my halyard to set the mast rake correctly. So ill have to go rig all of that up and start figuring out the numbers..remember, my mast tapers. But I'm hoping I can shoot a laser line and and get the mast set like you described for measuring. Not looking for precision but it would be nice to know im.going the right direction.


I think we're on the same page. Thx!
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
I was thinking a riser might be needed too..since it'll run to a block a little higher up on the transom.
The location of the spinnaker halyard block on the aft wall of the cockpit doesn't affect anything. The parts of the line that run through it are slack (or nearly so) at all times. What you may need a cleat riser for is to get the angle right from the block on the forward wall. You want to attach that block as close to the cockpit floor as you can, but you may still need some fine-tuning at the cleat. The Harken 293 might be perfect, but you have to test it.

:D Found the exact parts to demonstrate some of this:

IMG_0063.jpg

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LaLi

Well-Known Member
i figured a riser was for facilitating uncleating?
Helps a bit with that, too, But the point is to position the cleat vertically so that the halyard cleats automatically when hoisting. Then you won't need any extra fairlead(s) between the cleat and the forward block, either.

(Alternatively, you can of course go totally North American -style with no spinnaker-related fittings on the cockpit floor. Simple but sailable.)

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joe c

banned
Helps a bit with that, too, But the point is to position the cleat vertically so that the line cleats automatically when you pull it. You won't need any extra fairlead(s) between the cleat and the forward block, either.

(Alternatively, you can of course go totally North American -style with no spinnaker-related fittings on the cockpit floor. Simple but sailable.)

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Nooooo!!! I like all the things! ;-)
 

joe c

banned
well this is just great....:rolleyes:
so....totally stuck on this one. new pole. doesnt fit the 17mm ring. basically getting the "its old....upgrade" treatment, with no suggestions on what will work. uh....i bought the pole that was supposed to fit my old stuff. i found i think ronstan sells a ring. and selden does too. i could probably machine that end down. but jesus i spent like 360 bucks on that thing. lol. would suck to have it break and be flying all over. especially with the new spin. so...any ideas anyone? it totally binds and doesnt even come close to seating correctly. i could probably cut the ring off and have a new stainless one made and welded on. but that seems really stupid given this was supposed to fit. sigh. i have so much into this spinnaker rig. its getting really stupid now. but must forge ahead. its soooo close.

20220424_174440.jpg20220424_174400.jpg
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
...any ideas anyone?
It's the tiny RWO ring that you have. It should be a fit with the smaller RWO pole end (which, if I remember it right, is a pain to install), but in any case it's too weak for the L2 pole loads. It will bend.

I believe the Allen A4332 was the later standard fitting: Laser Performance Laser 2 Spinnaker Pole Ring
Anything of approximately that size & construction by any spar or fitting manufacturer (such as Seldén) should do.

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joe c

banned
It's the tiny RWO ring that you have. It should be a fit with the smaller RWO pole end (which, if I remember it right, is a pain to install), but in any case it's too weak for the L2 pole loads. It will bend.

I believe the Allen A4332 was the later standard fitting: Laser Performance Laser 2 Spinnaker Pole Ring
Anything of approximately that size & construction by any spar or fitting manufacturer (such as Seldén) should do.

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Thank you. I'll order one up. Huge help.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
The ring with the too-small (17 mm) opening and a single weld seam should be the RWO R4250, though Allen may have made a very similar fitting years ago. The inside diameter of the A4332 on the Fogh site is simply wrong: if the rod is 6 mm thick, then the opening is around 30 mm (as it should).

Here's a real bargain by the way: Club 420 Ring, Spin Pole, 420/Fj... if that number is right. And of course you should ask for the dimensions as they're not stated.

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joe c

banned
so heres maybe a really dumb question. there are eyes on one side of the pole only. assuming for uphaul or bridle and trolley block. i have an uphaul line just bowlined on the forward eye. i have the pole set to be able to read the logo, which orients the eyes correctly. do i have the pole somehow installed upside down? i have it set to drop on the fitting vs push up from below.



20220424_174555~3.jpg
 

joe c

banned
The ring with the too-small (17 mm) opening and a single weld seam should be the RWO R4250, though Allen may have made a very similar fitting years ago. The inside diameter of the A4332 on the Fogh site is simply wrong: if the rod is 6 mm thick, then the opening is around 30 mm (as it should).

Here's a real bargain by the way: Club 420 Ring, Spin Pole, 420/Fj... if that number is right. And of course you should ask for the dimensions as they're not stated.

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no dims given on that one. but this one has.
 

joe c

banned
looks like the west marine in annapolis has the ronstan. guess ill scoot over there later today. 20pct off on all ronstan stuff and harken blocks and cleats. not a bad deal.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
do i have the pole somehow installed upside down? i have it set to drop on the fitting vs push up from below.
No, that's how it's intended: the pole ends should open downwards.

(Some folks in the 470 class insist that it should be the other way for some reason, but I've actually tested that myself and it feels simply awkward, especially in light air.)

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joe c

banned
well, the west marine in annapolis had a ronstan ring. i scooted down just before they closed up for the day. and holy cow thats a super nice west!! they have all kinds of stuff my local ones dont have. btw they have a nice sale going on lots of sailing stuff. less 20 on ronstan and harken stuff. discounts on line too. but i didnt notice what. in case people are looking.

but the ring will work great. itll need a little finessing to get the shape a little better but perfect fix. thanks!!!!!!!
 
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