Kicker

Philip

New Member
I am adjusting the lengths of the ropes on my kicker and was wondering if I should allow more than block to block at the expense of being able to let the kicker right off for running by the lee. Or if I should make block to block the maximum allowing more length when totally released.
Phil
 
Somewhere (drLaser?) I remember reading that the suggested max. extension of the vang was with the boom end pulled down 6" from where is hangs w/o any tension on the vang or mainsheet. Mine is set just about there (maybe slightly longer), and it seems to allow me to let the vang off for BTL sailing in light air.

With this setting, the leach looks pretty tight with the vang off all the way sailing BTL, but the tell-tales say it's OK.

Cheers,

Geoff S.
 
i vote for the later. you need to let off the vang all the way when running in all conditions. you also need to put maximum vang on (so easing sail barely lifts boom-end when easing out sail in max breeze) I hope this helps :)
 
> Somewhere (drLaser?) I remember reading that the suggested max.
> extension of the vang was with the boom end pulled down 6" from
> where it hangs w/o any tension on the vang or mainsheet.

Correct wording would be:
"where it hangs w/o any tension on the mainsheet."

Vang will be under tension to be able to pull the boom end 6" down. Or rather, you first push the boom end down, and then take the slack off the vang line and cleat it, which tensions it.

Picky, picky, picky me!

And David, you need some tension on the Laser vang even in drifting conditions. Don't forget that the Laser sail panels are cut straight. The fullness is built only into the foot, leech and lufflines. The mast MUST be bent for the sail to assume its designed shape.

As for Philip (of UK?), I did not understand his question.

Shevy
 
Hi Shevy

What I was trying to say is, I am replacing the primary line (the spectra) on my Holt vang. If I make it on the short side I might not be able to let vang off enough to allow the leach to pass the mast while running by the lee. If I can establish how much past block-to-block would I ever need to go I could make the spectra just long enough to achieve this, which would give me the maximum length when fully released to experiment with running by the lee.

I am new to the laser and it might be that you never need to release the vang past its non-tension “rest” state in which case the length of the primary is not very critical. However it looks from the pictures I’ve seen that while sailing by the lee the boom possibly needs to lift past this point to allow the top of the sale to twist in front of the mast.

Regards,
Phil
 
You seem to be too much concerned with the length of the line you need to buy :) You will need 6.1 m, and even more depending on the number and types of "hadles" you will incorporate into your control line.

1. You will always need some extra line beyond the slackest kicker setting you will use: At least just to make a large bowline loop as a handle, right at the exit from the vang cleat block at max ease setting. And then even more line to be able to reach the vang line without moving forward to the mast while sailing downwind. And even more line if you want to put a second bowline handle along or at the very end of that tail.

So, you need LOTS more spectra than just what your kicker length requires at maximum-slack (max ease) position. See the images in "How shall I rig my vang?" in the drLaser FAQ, which also specifies exact line lengths.

You fine tune the "maximum slack" setting on the kicker simply by moving the position of the bowline handle which also serve as a stopper knot on the kicker control line.

2. Yes, the length of the "primary" is critical on the Standard Laser vang system using the Standard Holt vang blocks. It will permanently fix how much of a "pain" you will endure inserting the vang key into the boom vang strap hole every time you rig. #5 below implicitly defines the appropriate length of the primary segment of the control line. An exact primary line length is provided in the above noted drLaser FAQ.

3. Sailing by-the-lee, for the leech to fall of in front of the mast, you do not need a kicker that will allow lifting the boom "to the sky". A boom "almost perpandicular" to the mast will be sufficient "to allow the top of the sale to twist in front of the mast." The leech will lead the mast anyway purely because the boom will be opened to (slightly) more than 90 degrees to the hull centerline (the extent depending on the wind and sea conditions).

But an even more open leech will surely broaden "the groove" of the sail even more, if you are into zig-zagging (S-curving). But it will also increase your risks of a deathroll, too. So, I do not advise (for you) a slacker "max ease" setting than what is noted by Geoff S. You will get to practice zig-zagging a few years into Lasering, anyway.

The working definition of a boom "almost perpandicular to the mast" used above is provided below, in #5.

4. The reason why I was confused was beacuse of the "past block-to-block" or "more than block-to-block" terminology you use in your e-mails. There is nothing "PAST" block-to-block! You actually mean "short of block-to-block" or "less than block-to-block"!

5. As Geoff S. tries to remember but can't, the drLaser website article "Ideal Vang Tension Downwind" provides a guideline and a working definition. In the article, the U.S. Olympic hopeful Mark Jacobi notes:
"My vang is rigged so that when it is completely eased, it is
at the most loose setting I expect to ever need (e.g.
running downwind in drifting conditions). This setting is
about 6" down at the end of the boom from completely
slack. What I mean is: measure from the end of the boom to
the deck, with the vang disconnected and the sail luffing.
Now, push down on the end of the boom so it is 6 inches
closer to the deck. That's the setting I have as the most
loose on my vang. You'll have to push down on your boom a
little to get the vang key in when rigging with this setting."

So, that's the appropriate "max ease" setting. Note that it tensions the leech, pre-bends the mast a bit, and removes the bagginess at the luff of the flat cut sail.

Also note that you can use (cleat) your mainsheet to fix your boom elevation at this "6 inches (15.2 cm) full slack" position, mount you vang blocks on the spars, and then detemine the proper length of the primary tail of the standard 8:1 configuration using your old Holt blocks. This corresponds to Step (image #) 6 in the rigging of the 8:1 vang, as shown in the above noted drLaser FAQ item.

At the max ease setting, the bowline (or overhand knot) at the end of the primary tail should still be pointing down towards the mast tang.

5. Hope this helps.
There is much you can read and learn from on the drLaser website. If you are not a member of UKLA (or whatever country you are from that compells you to use the word "kicker"), join your local Class Association, get the special password that will allow you access to these drLaser articles, and enjoy the content.

What you will learn via mailing lists or bulletin boards will always be limited to quick replies.

Regards,

Shevy Gunter
Editor, drLaser
Member, ILCA-NA
 
wrt the "max. ease" downwind setting. As a Laser (but not by-the-lee sailing) newbie, I went throught some considerable experimentation and discussion here about the max. ease for downwind sailing as I was becoming familar with the quirks of the Laser this summer.

My on-the-water observations were that with the vang much looser than the "6-inch setting" the sail became quite unstable downwind (boom lifting and flopping around); I never found conditions when that was fast, although I have to admit I didn't try it in wind above about 12 kn.

The consensus in the discussion was that Laser sails tend to look like they have a tight leach from inside the boat until it's *way* (too) loose.

My conclusion was that the recommendations in "Ideal Vang Tension Downwind" are pretty close to optimum (Shevy: thanks for finding the title!).

There is one added benefit to rigging the vang so that you have to pull the boom down a bit to attach the key: my vang never comes undone accidently anymore, even without a "keeper" at the key-slot on the boom.

Cheers,

Geoff S.
 

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