keeping the #%^& boat flat ????

[knot_moving]

At the risk of receiving extreme ridicule & realizing the obvious that I need to get my flabby self into the gym ....
please take a look at the enclosed pics and offer me your recommendations on improved sail trim to help keep the boat flatter.

Conditions were VERY gusty, with lulls down around 10 and gusts up pushing 20 and slightly above.

When I look at them my sail seems a little full - meaning more mainsheet and hiking and/or more vang if I'm not going to hike. Does this sound right?

--I'm sailing #48

 

[AlanD]

Ok, IMO you don't have sufficient mainsheet tension for starters. By the time you are hiking, you need to be block to block. If in flat water, pull the vang on so that it's under a little tension. In choppy water, you'll need to have even more vang on, so that the boom goes out sideways when the mainsheet is released. To go along with this, in flat water, you can pinch the boat into the wind to keep the boat flat, but in rougher water this will result in the boat hitting a wave and coming to a standstill, so rather than pinching, you need to ease the mainsheet and possibly head slightly lower. Which you do will vary depending on what waves are in front of the boat at that instant.

 

[gordo]

vang sheeting is super key. im my opinion i would say instead of pinching up just sheet out to keep it flat and play the main. try not to over use the cunningham cause that will destroy speed. a lil more outhaul could help. but as you said in every situation fitness helps

 

[Alysum]

Just out of interest, what is the sail you have? Is it an Intensity one? How come it's #48 ?

 

[AlanD]

vang sheeting is super key. im my opinion i would say instead of pinching up just sheet out to keep it flat and play the main.

The trouble with this technique is you'll lose height or potential height. This technique is fantastic in waves but isn't great on flat water.

 

[clouser_minnow]

it doesnt look too choppy but for starters,
you'd want to sheet in all the way, block to block when you're going upwind, and you also would want to tension the vang just a little more than block to block (pic 1). what i do is sheet in block to block, cleat the main and give the kicker a light tug and recleat. if you're having trouble keeping the boat flat (doubt you will be) tighten your cunningham and the outhaul, however, you might want to have a slightly flatter sail than normal say an inch less depth than if in choppy water so you will be able to go for height instead of speed, which is what you would be seeking in stronger wind with bigger waves. in fairly choppy water i have about 3" of depth but when its flat, i have about 2". the other thing that you might want to consider trying is loosening your strap just a TINY little bit and hike with straight legs... when you're calves and thighs are "glued" to the deck, your movements will be able to be transmitted to the hull directly. when a gust hits you, keep the main tight and point SLIGHTLY. there should be a very slight and almost unnoticiable luff in the sail so you can gain height while keeping the boat flat through the gust. when it seems to die off, bear away slightly to get back on course with a full sail. this takes a while to get the hang of, but when you get it, it works well.

 

[gordo]

there is also a hiking technique that some people i know of use. it is for sure not the best way to hike but some people find that they can last a bit longer. what you do is cross your ankles so essentially you are hiking of one leg at a time and switch them up when you are getting tired. going with both legs is better but this might help you keep you ass over the edge a bit longer

 

[knot_moving]

Just out of interest, what is the sail you have? Is it an Intensity one? How come it's #48 ?

Yes it is an intensity sail that I only use for club racing or practicing (hmm how many weeks - months since I was out practicing?) & I was too lazy to put 121448 on both sides so just used 48

Thank-you all for your insights and recommendations!! Much more than I ever hoped for

Mike

 

[Rob B]

First you need way more vang on for the puffs. Then when a puff comes ease the sheet, hike the boat down and trim back in slowly while keeping the boat flat. You have to steer the boat through any chop. This requires active trimming of the sail. Ease when you sail down and trim when you head up.

I see a lot of people saying you have to be block to block. This does not keep your boat flat. If you are unable to hike enough to keep it flat then ease the sheet. When you are flat you go faster in a forward direction. When you heel too much the boat goes sideways.

Always try to keep your bow up. Don't bear away and loose height. Keep your height and ease the sheet.

When it is blowing over 15 your vang should be on enough that when you ease the sheet the boom does not raise up from it's 2-block position. It only moves outboard when you ease the sheet, not up.

 

[madyottie]

When it is blowing over 15 your vang should be on enough that when you ease the sheet the boom does not raise up from it's 2-block position. It only moves outboard when you ease the sheet, not up.

Sorry Rob, but......
I have to disagree on this (que up the super-vang brigade ) although I guess it does depend on how big you are. As a heavyweight, I find that I'm fastest with the vang set so that when I ease from 2blocked, that my boom goes up about 4-7 inches before really going out that much. If I hit a rough patch, I can free that tiny bit for more power through the waves, and if its flat I can keep decent leech tension. I tried putting on the suggested amount (once, by accident, in the heat of battle) and my rig suffered the start of inversion, resulting in a huge loss of power and height. Eased things off and quickly got back in the game.
I only use 8:1 on the vang, as I have a tendency to pull quite hard! One other benefit to having it slightly looser is that IF you get heeled in a gust, the boom goes above the water, not into it.

I fully agree on all the other things you say tho!!

 

[Rob B]

I'm a heavy weight too. Next time out I'll see what not putting on the "super vang" does. I can see how allowing the boom to raise would help especially in lumpy conditions. Before the upgraded vang there was no "super vang" and the boom would always raise from the 2 block position for everyone.

I raced a few events in 2008 where I was supervanged in breeze and saw no loss of power or height. Being heavier we always have an advantage going UW in the breeeze anyway. I wonder if I had cracked of the vang a smidge if I would have been faster? Good reason to try it out.

The one thing I always try to avoid in breeze while sailing upwind is leech flutter. I find this is usally a good sign your sail is spent if you can't get enough vang on to stop the flutter, (or your sailing in over 25 knots). I just feel like the flutter is slow and certainly distracting.

 

[jeffers]

Being one of the heavier breed of Laser sailor (but not as large as some) I always find that in a blow I am much faster than a lot of others upwind because I can keep the power on (that and I hike like hell for as long as possible).

I have found that easing the vang as long as you have LOTS of cunnigham pulled on can help spill any excess power as it blows the leech open at the top of the sail. You do need to play the sail a lot more in the puffs and luffs though to keep the boat from becoming unstable.

As for on the reaches just hang on a go for it (the occasional 'wooo hhoooooo' as you plane past your lighter rivals always goes down well).

 

[glasky]

In conditions over 12kts with severely rough winds and rapid gust onslaughts (the kind you only find on some inland waterways) the only way I can get the topmast with a standard sail to deflect (yield) sufficiently to release pressure is to throw my weight out violently. This can be a very hit and miss situation and quite exhausting in severely rough and turbulent wind.

My arms are not long enough to release and recover sufficient sheet to parry the gusts in this manner and the added drag of sailing with half the sail backwinded makes this slow in any case.

Two experiments have given unexpected relief in some extreme conditions.

One was after a tardy leeward mark roundig wher I was forced to sail a few hundred meters with almost no vang tension. Amazing how forgiving a heavily twisted sail can be upwind in such conditions. Not nearly at optimmum theoretical drive but actual controlled drive was much better.

The other occurred while sailing a radial in around 20+kts but with the same harsh and rapid gust onslaught conditions. This time, with only moderate vang and a flat sail I tried a sort of 'steer for ballance' thing - max ease just before knockdown, coordinated with a hike and rapid 10 degree 'bear away' for just a second, rolling into a coordinated trim back in of the sheet and slow luff to resime point direction. After two or three cycles the boat became faster, steadier and it felt like I had a trapeze. (I know very few boats should theortically be able to steer for balance upwind - and that steer for balance is not supposed to work much under about 7kts but there was something happening that made it all go faster and easier in brutal and overpowering gusts)

Anybody experimented in either direction?