Keeping rudder blade fully down

R

rqy99g

New Member
Hi

I recently bought a Laser which has a very nice carbon fibre tiller. The only fitting on it is a fairlead. How do you tie the rope off to ensure the blade stays fully down (as it keeps coming up just a bit making it a bit heavy on the helm)?

I'm sure it would have been better to have a cleat as well.

Simon
 
I have that same tiller that 49208 shows in the picture.
On mine, there is a small "tunnel" on the aft part of the cleat. I filed this out to make a nice smooth fairlead through which to pass the line. (You need to remove the cleat to do this.) I am using 5/32 finish line for the cordage.

Rudder%20DH.jpg
 
Not sure if this is still the trick but I used to tighten the rudder bolt so that the blade did not move easily.
 
Buy the upgraded rudder bolt kit and tighten it. This will keep the rudder down and make the tiller line just a tool for keeping the tiller tight in the rudder head.
 
I was tempted to buy the carbon fibre tiller, but because I launch and end on a concrete slip-way, I thought it would just get broken and chipped if I'm not very careful, so considering sticking with the standard hard waring rudder blade.

Is it really worth getting the carbon one, what are the main benefits?
 
There are no carbon rudders, (the blade that hangs off the back of the boat). Only carbon tillers, (the thing you hold to steer the boat).

If you do not have a carbon tiller I would recommend against getting one until you are getting competitve on the race course in your local laser fleet.
 
Alex192527 said:
Ah ok I see. Why is a carbon tiller good for racing? won't make too much weight difference surely..
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Being flat, it allows the traveler to clear the tiller much better than with a round tiller. It lessens the possiblity of a capsize during a tack or a gybe. The tiller itself doesn't make the boat faster, but I find the boat sails better with the pointy end up.
 
You can also get the traveller line tighter which results in the laser holy grail, more leach tension!
A carbon tiller and extension are also stiffer and feel more positive but don't get one until you are conficent of never sitting on it during a tack or gybe.
 
Laser are offering a "No Postage Cost" deal in June, so it's cheaper buying one now.. I want to start racing sometime soon at my Club but at the moment I'm still learning to handle the boat, is it just not worth getting at the moment?
 
Don't get it yet. It's light, the postage can't be that much. You'll hate yourself if you break it. Don't say, "I won't use it until I'm more comfortable w/the boat." Us boys can not restrain ourselves from playing with new toys. If you have it you'll use it and Murphy's law will surely apply..
 
Alex192527 said:
Laser are offering a "No Postage Cost" deal in June, so it's cheaper buying one now.. I want to start racing sometime soon at my Club but at the moment I'm still learning to handle the boat, is it just not worth getting at the moment?
Click to expand...

You're at the same stage as me. On race nights I don't go out racing, I follow the course to learn how to sail the boat. Once the leaders finish, I cross the line then retire a few laps early.

At our stage there is more to be gained from learning to sail the boat than from buying new toys. Once you feel you are getting everything possible out of the hull and rig then look at upgrading the hardware, but not before.

Al.
 
Agree with all of the above points, I won't purchase the Orbit Main Block nor the Carbon Fibre Tiller for a while then, despite both being pretty cool accessories..!
 
i took out the new laser today and had exactly the same problem. it just flicks up slightly and no matter how tight the downhaul is cleated it still slips. i cant have a permanently fixed rudder as i race in sometimes shallow waters so will tightening the existing bolts help keep it in place but allow for it to rise if i hit the bottom?
 
I tightened the bolt after my new laser's first sail but it has become loose again.. also the bailer seems to stick open under the boat now, after only 4 sails!! Not impressed..
 
lasereng, have you confirmed that immediately after tying your rudder downhaul it really is secure ? Try doing on shore while the boat is still on the dolly - put the wheels up on something if there's not enough space to get the rudder completely down. Tie off the downhaul and then see if you can pull the rudder up at all. If you can there's something wrong with your downhaul setup, i.e. some slack or the rope is catching somewhere. Where you take the rope down between the rudder stock cheeks, do you put it over the top tube that carries the bolt holding the cheeks together ? It slides better over this.
You say "it still slips" - do you mean the rope in the cleat ? or the rudder blade ?
If it feels secure on land but slips after you've been sailing for a while, maybe your rope is stretching when wet ? Others here can give advice on the best non-stretchy rope.
 
On mine, because the bolt has been tightened, when the blade is down, there isn't much pressure on the cleat, so sometimes it slips out, then the blade can rise randomly and you realise when the tiller is less reponsive. I think the answer for me, is to tie the downhaul line off once the blade is down, but ensure it can be released easily when coming ashore..
 
I found the problems was not so much keeping the rudder down but rather keeping the tiller tightly in the rudder stock (as they both use the same bit of string). I do have the “mega bolt” and it is “firm” (i.e. not really tight and not flopping around. However, for ages I had the problem where the tiller would slowly work slightly loose (e.g. after 20 mins sailing). No risk of it falling out and the tiny amount of free play makes no real difference except that it really annoys me.

I changed the eye on the standard PSC carbon tiller for the cleat they also supply (special really small one with a . Unfortunately the screw holes were not an exact match – but that is not an issue in practice). Once I had it rigged properly (which I got wrong to start with) then I works well and holds even the spectra downhaul.

The special cleat is similar to the pic posted by sidewinder above but smaller. Rigs the same way and will easily fit on the side of the tiller.

Ian
 
I don't have a carbon tiller but I do have a carbon tiller extension -- just a piece of carbon tube that I bought surplus, and epoxied a universal joint fitting into one end.

I'm not nearly good enough that it makes a difference, but one thing I noticed is that the carbon extension is light and stiff -- I can really feel what's going on with the rudder -- a clump of seaweed or a cluster of bubbles hits the rudder blade and I can feel it in my hand. This, in turn, encourages a very light grip -- instead of wrapping my entire paw around the tiller extension and gripping it until my knuckles turn white, I hold it lightly in two fingers. That, in turn, maes it really obvious when I"m fighting a loaded-up udder; it encourages me to hike the boat flat rather than to fight weather helm by keeping pressure on tiller all the time, and flat is fast.

If you're a hack like me I wouldn't recommend going out and spending $ on a carbon tiller, but if you can find a $25 or $50 piece of carbon fiber tubing, consider making yourself a tiller extension. I've heard that bamboo is very nice, too.
 
Deimos said:
I found the problems was not so much keeping the rudder down but rather keeping the tiller tightly in the rudder stock (as they both use the same bit of string).
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Gaffer tape/ Duck tape?

Hi tech solutions all the way!

I take it you're using a locating pin to keep the tiller IN the rudder stock but are feeling some slack between the sleeve and the tiller end? If so, just wind a couple of turns of tape round the tiller end to remove the slack.

Al.
 
Al Black said:
Gaffer tape/ Duck tape?

Hi tech solutions all the way!

I take it you're using a locating pin to keep the tiller IN the rudder stock but are feeling some slack between the sleeve and the tiller end? If so, just wind a couple of turns of tape round the tiller end to remove the slack.

Al.
Click to expand...

I don't use the pin because a) its a carbon tiller which is hollow and drilling a hole will let the water in (and I imagine would weaken it), and b) pin is just something else for the mainsheet to catch on when gybing.

It was only a problem with the eye and with the new cleat things seem fine.

Ian
 
Bigger bolt, crank it tight with the rudder in the down position, and leave it down. Put the rudder on while in the water. As far as the tiller, while in as far as it will go if it should have no wiggle room, if it does a layer of tape around it will do the trick...maybe two layers. Jam it in and there's a 1/8 inch or so hole in the top of the rudder housing, an appropriate size pin (with a small line on it so you don't lose it) will keep the tiller in - if the hole in the housing doesn't line up with the one in the tiller (while inserted fully), drilling one should work. Then take the rudder tie down line and tie it off on the tiller. When taking the boat out of the water, simply pop the rudder off with the tiller on.

Not the most elegant solution but you will never have to think about it while racing again.
 
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