Is using a paddle cheating?

Chauncy

New Member
Newbie. Just got my sunfish a couple weeks ago. Been out to lake twice so far. The first time was fine but winds were light and variable so it was painfully slow at times, still I enjoyed it.

Second time out was probably around 5-6mph and I had a lot more fun once i was able to get out and sail. But I had a lot of trouble getting started. The boat ramp at my lake is in a little nook which is not very wide to maneuver in. There is no dock. Also, there are full grown weeds all around the perimeter of that nook except immediately in front of the ramp. Of course the wind was blowing directly into the nook. So I have to tack in quick succession to get out. But I also have to get forward enough to drop my fins. I tried just a leg push but it was not enough propulsion to get started. Fins got caught in weeds. Got blown backwards and sideways and pinned up against the side of the nook in additional weeds. I was stuck there for a good 5 minutes unable to move in any direction. Must have been laughable to anyone watching. A single push with the paddle would not get me off the weeds.

Finally I pulled the fins up, waited for the wind to die down a bit, then did 10 quick and forceful paddles to get out into the middle of the nook, dropped my fins, close hauled for a few seconds then tacked a couple times and got out.

Just wondering if any purists would disagree with using a paddle and would have found a way to sail it out. For me to many chicken and eggs. Need to be able to steer to sail, but need to be able to drop fins to steer, but need to be far enough out to drop fins, but need to sail far enough out to drop fins.
 
Welcome to sailing and "getting out of the harbor." Sailing ships use to be towed
out of the harbor by Longboats. If the currents and wind were strong enough
the Longboats because insufficient and the ships had to wait in the harbor. Feel
free to use the most expedient method as you're supported by history.
 
Thanks Webfoot. That makes me a feel a little bit better. The lake is close by and great for sailing (wide and deep) but the boat ramp is probably in THE worst possible place you could put if for launching a sail boat. Fine for motorized boats. Hopefully I've got the idea now and will paddle out when necessary.
 
But I had a lot of trouble getting started. The boat ramp at my lake is in a little nook which is not very wide to maneuver in. There is no dock. Also, there are full grown weeds all around the perimeter of that nook except immediately in front of the ramp. Of course the wind was blowing directly into the nook.
Where I am located in Florida, divers bring back abandoned anchors to sell. I bought a large and very-well-bent Danforth for $3. :cool: Using a pallet of heavy pavers for a vise, I successfully untangled it with a galvanized pipe and digging bar. This anchor was permanently installed by me about 75-feet off a shoreline. A floating yellow polypropylene line allows me to pull the Sunfish out past the weeds and into an open place to start rigging, dropping boards, and sailing. :)

In your case, the weeds could help: consider flipping a tiny grapnel anchor down that channel, and repeatedly "kedging" yourself forward:

The Lost Art of Kedging: how to set a kedge anchor - Sail Magazine
 
Thanks everyone for all the encouragement. Just wanted to make sure there was no easier way that i wasn't able to think of. I like the idea of getting a Jet Ski tow or having an anchor line to pull myself out on, however Jet Skis are illegal at my lake and I'm pretty sure installing my own buoy with a line on it would be too. But great ideas though for other future lakes I may visit.
 
There is no shame in paddling when you need to. However, if you are racing, you can't paddle after the 5 minute gun (or 3 minute gun if your club used a 3 minute starting sequence.) I have seen racers paddle like hell to make a start when they stray too far from the line in light air, but the race actually "starts" at the 3 or 5 minute gun, and no paddling after that! Oddly, a racer may anchor on a race course if a foul current pushes a boat backwards in light air, but most Sunfish don't carry an anchor! Some day I will find a $50 Sunfish with a ratty sail, install an electric motor under the hull out of sight and steam dead upwind in a light air race with the sail luffing and my fellow sailors hurling insults at me.

Alan Glos
Cazenovi, NY
 
Here is the 1½-pound folding grapnel anchor I had mind for kedging-out into deeper waters. ('Bit heavy to throw, but it should work).

DSC03088-225x225.JPG


One other lightweight grapnel is offered in a stout wire configuration, Alternatively, a weighted treble-fishhook would be easier to toss. (Bend points—grind off sharp edges—toss—pull upwards through weeds—rinse, repeat).

s-l225.jpg

'Beats pulling yourself along—grasping at weeds. :confused:

.
 
Take a look at a great invention called "the praddle". It's a one-handed paddle designed for small sail boats. Unlike using a daggerboard, using the praddle, you can paddle and steer the boat at the same time. I mounted my praddle inside the cockpit, on the side wall, under the cockpit lip, closer to the stern. Fits great. Out of my way. Saved my butt a few times so far. It's a great piece of gear to have. Hope this help you.
-Whitecap
 
Yes, I have used a Praddle as well in no wind situations.
The Paddle Hand works similarly. Both are available from Intensity Sails.
 
I find if the wind is above 5-7 kts, I'm not able to overcome a headwind. Of course other directions usually doesn't matter as much.
 
In my experience, the most efficient and powerful method for paddling a Sunfish or Laser goes like this.

- Pull out your full length or telescoping canoe paddle.
- Sink the daggerboard all the way.
- Raise the rudder so it's completely free of the water.
- Sit on the bow cross legged and far enough forward so it's easy to reach out in front of you on each paddle stroke.
- The daggerboard will keep the boat running in enough of a straight line that you can do 5 hard strokes on one side before you even have to think about switching sides.
- If you are forced to paddle to shore or the boat ramp upwind because you have a mechanical failure (been there, done that) lower your sail and mast. That's a lot of windage.

An example of this technique can be seen here at 4 minutes, 15 seconds in the video.. though my protege Greg was using a kayak paddle, not a canoe paddle. In no wind conditions where you leave your sail and mast up, the Laser mast makes a great back rest when you want to take a break or back off from your high speed, power paddling.

And here's the telescoping canoe paddle I have stowed aft of the cockpit in the Sunfish.

west-marine-paddle.jpeg


- Andy
 
I like the kayak paddle idea, especially as it's long enough to use in shallows as a "push-pole". Other than storing a "take-apart" kayak paddle in the Ultimate Inspection Port, where would you store it on a Sunfish?
 
I lash mine to the front edge of the upper spar, not caring about wind flow turbulence. Or...I jam it between the halyard and the mast and tie it at the bow handle.
I've been looking for my "ultimate" inspection port too, as I have no cockpit cuddy in my 69 fish. Don't want to buy new, but I'll come across a used one at some point, I'm sure. I used to have a bunch that I replaced on a boat, but pitched them.... argh!!
 
I have the yellow telescoping one shown above which is what i was using in my original post. I don't think mine is the highest quality though because one of the extensions is already "tough" to insert or extend. I paid almost nothing for it but it should be good enough to get the job done for now. I just throw it in loose in the aft storage area for now.
 
Update- my 3rd time out and still struggling with north wind pushing me into the small cove I am launching from. No improvement!!! :( Put sail up and tried paddling out into the wind but was not able to overcome the headwind (which was light I think <5mph, and I think mixmkr mentioned this could be an issue earlier). Got pushed back and horribly stuck in weeds again in a different area, took me several minutes of struggling then gave up. Unlike the first time I actually had to put sail down AND had to use paddle to push the seabed (could not just paddle out of the weeds) before i could start paddling out. Then as an experiment I tried sitting on the front like the laser guy did to paddle but my weight caused too much of a dip in the bow plus it's more difficult with lanteen sail which was in the way, so I paddled from the cockpit.

But back to my launch failure, I guess I am learning that to close haul or close reach you need speed first in order for your daggerboard not to stall, otherwise you pretty much have no sideways control. Also the daggerboard probably has to be almost all the way down in order to head up wind as well, but putting the daggerboard fully down is almost impossible in my launch situation without getting stuck or slowed down.

So I think we definitively answered my original question that using a paddle is fine, and not bad form. The problem is that it may not be enough to solve getting out of the harbor, at least not with the sail up. (I was nervous about putting the sail up on the water but it worked out ok).

Now I am reconsidering some ideas I considered strange at first, like throwing a small anchor (LightVariableWinds) or using a praddle (whitecap) or getting a tow. The small anchor might be best in strong winds when by myself, only concern would be if it got stuck. Also I'd have to watch for the scratching hazard. The praddle would at least make it easier to paddle with one hand. Also should probably get in habbit of launching with sail down, maybe that would have been enough to solve my problem. If I still struggle next time I might just not bother going anymore if there is a north (or south) wind.

Now I will tell you the story about coming in. After I had a decent sail for about an hour in light wind, the wind pretty much completely disappeared as I was heading in. Full stop. So I put sail down (again, was worried but it worked out ok, used a small bungee i stashed on board to lash the sail and spars together). I pulled up the rudder but left the daggerboard down, then tried paddling on alternate sides. My weight happened to shift side to side as I was doing this. Well I ended up going completely out of control and going in circles a couple times. I couldn't believe it.. Even as I started turning I moved the paddle to the other side, which I know from kayaking/canoing pushes you back in the right direction, except it didn't! :eek: This was right in front of a beach full of people and must have been hilarious. So I am guessing I was steering with my weight but didn't realize it which outweighed anything I was doing with the paddle.

So yeah, the praddle being one-handed would at least have let me use other hand to control the rudder and stop doing circles. I also learned that apparently the daggerboard does not provide any resistance to rotation, at least not at slow speed. Anyway, all the advice above seems even more relevant to me now.
 
Why did you put the rudder up? When I have had to paddles the sunfish home after the wind has dropped I have had the rudder down and have kept it straight by having the end of the tiller between my arse-cheeks (Sorry!, sounds weird but it works) It tracks along really straight.
(Your launch situation sounds really challenging BTW. Hope you figure something out.)
 
Why did you put the rudder up? When I have had to paddles the sunfish home after the wind has dropped I have had the rudder down and have kept it straight by having the end of the tiller between my arse-cheeks (Sorry!, sounds weird but it works) It tracks along really straight.
(Your launch situation sounds really challenging BTW. Hope you figure something out.)

I have tried the but-cheek method once before and maybe that's what i should do from now on. But i thought i heard someone say somewhere that they paddled with just centerboard down to provide some direction so i thought i'd try it out. But they may have been paddling from the front of the boat which may cause much less of a rotation problem. I am hoping I may solve my problem by just keeping the sail down until i paddle far enough out. Was trying to avoid that. much prefer rigging up on land and paddling out, but this type of boat is pushed so easily by wind. Within seconds you can be 20 feet in any direction. I didn't think with the sail flapping it would catch much wind to drive it backwards.

Can't you launch elsewhere?

Unfortunately no there is only one boat ramp. I could choose a different lake further away where i have to pay admittance. I will probably do that soon just for some variety.
 
I have the same paddle, and had to struggle to extend it. :confused: So now, it's about 40-inches long—and stuck at that length. It's strong, so I've used it like a lever against the gunnel, giving a sudden yank to muscle the bow around.

Yeah, the video shows a Laser being paddled successfully, but the kayak paddle has the advantage of an equal push with each stroke. A lateen sail would get in the way, although you could cover it with a lifejacket. Maybe paddling from the bow—only facing the stern—and navigating the Sunfish backwards could improve things. Use the canoeist's "J-stroke", so switching sides won't be necessary. Here's a YouTube video demonstrating the "J-stroke".

Here's a technique to get the grapnel out front:
;)
 
Hi Chauncy,

First of all, kudos for sticking with trying to develop a technique for getting out of that cove... which sounds like a real challenge! Don't give up on it... you'll be proud when you've figured out how to finesse your way out on to the water.

To that end, here's what I'd recommend you do step by step for leaving that cove when you've got a headwind to deal with. The following description is exactly the technique that I have used to launch Sunfishes from coves such as yours for decades when the wind is blowing straight on shore. Through thick weeds (eel grass), in shallow muddy water, out through congested areas of moored boats, long boat ramp areas with floats on either side, you name it.

- First, rig the boat fully on shore including raising the sail. This is just to make sure everything is ok and ready to go and, in particular, your halyard and main sheet are running through what they should be running through. If you have a block that the mainsheet runs through at the cockpit, tie a figure 8 knot on the end of the mainsheet then make sure you have your entire mainsheet laying untangled in a pile in the front of the cockpit. This is so that when you raise the sail and the lower boom wants to swing way out to one side, it will be free to do so because the mainsheet will be completely free to pay out with it.

- Now lower your sail to the deck, put the booms together, roll the sail up and put 2 bungees or velcro ties around it. Move the booms so they are sitting a bit diagonally across the boat, with the bow end of the booms sticking out to the left side (port) near the bow and the stern ends out the starboard side. Leave the mast up... if you feel that once you are on the water you can move around the mast to get on the bow area in front of the mast.

- If you don't feel like you can move past the mast once you are out on the water, pull the mast out and lay it along side the booms and tie everything down. Now see if you will be able to sit on the bow area with the booms and mast sitting slightly diagonal. Move everything more diagonal or everything further towards the stern if you need more room.

- Raise the rudder so it will be out of the water. Have the daggerboard ready laying on its side inside the cockpit. Get yourself off the beach and immediately start paddling from the bow. If you have the mast down as well, you can even kneel while positioned right over or just in front of the mast tube on the deck instead of sitting. The boat will want to swing back and forth with no daggerboard down below the hull so you will have to alternate strokes on either side frequently.

- As soon as the weeds allow you to, sink the daggerboard all the way down. You will now be able to paddle from the bow with the boat going in a straight line. Leave the rudder up and out of the water. Sit up on the bow and paddle with your canoe or kayak paddle. Why a long canoe or kayak paddle vs the shorter praddle? That's because the long handle and big blade will allow you to create much longer and more powerful paddle strokes. This will give you much more horsepower to motor out into the lake.

- Once you are way out there, stow your paddle and get positioned to raise your sail. Put the mast in. Do NOT put your daggerboard in yet and do not lower your rudder yet. This will leave the boat free to adjust to the sail being raised and staying on one side of the boat. If you put either your daggerboard down first, or your rudder down first or both together, the boat will immediately want to start sailing and turning and raising your sail then securing your halyard will be a pain in the rear end because the boat will start sailing in circles, heading up, heading off, tacking and jibing while you are trying to finish your rigging.

- Once you have the sail raised, the halyard cleated and everything neat and tidy and the main sheet in a clean pile and not tangled, lower your rudder first. Even with the sail luffing, the boat should immediately start to pivot around the rudder and begin to bear off the wind on its own on to a close reach then a broad reach... a broad reaching being where you want to start sailing from to get flow established over the daggerboard as quickly as possible. If the boat won't bear off and do this and the sail is still luffing, move the rudder/tiller to the center line of the boat, grab the boom with one hand and either push it away from you or towards you so it starts catching some wind. When you do this, the boat will immediately pivot around the rudder and begin to head off.

- When the boat is just about to be heading on to a broad reach heading, let go of the boom so the sail is completely luffing again and sink your daggerboard all the way down. With the rudder/tiller still on the centerline of the boat, slowly sheet in the main sheet and fill the sail gradually. This will get the water to start flowing over the daggerboard. If you sheet in too hard and too fast, the boat will want to head up and you will risk stalling the flow over the daggerbord. Once you are clearly sailing in a straight line... meaning, clean flow of the water over the daggerboard has clearly been established... sheet in all the way. That's it, you're sailing.

Keep us posted on further developments. And don't give up on trying to figure out how to get out of your challenging, weedy, spectator packed cove with onshore winds. You got this!!

Cheers,

- Andy
 
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Good advice. Another option is to swim out and pull the boat if the wind isn't too strong. I've done that as long as the blades are up and the sail is down. The sunfish actually pulls pretty easy this way. Get some flippers if those might help. That way you're already cooled off!
 
"Another option is to swim out and pull the boat if the wind isn't too strong."

I like this suggestion. You know why? Because it shows a total, 100% commitment to getting out on the water to sail. No matter what!

This is what I do every time I sail (two times a week). I have a dock that has a slip oriented North/South. We get 10-15 kts of Southerly winds almost every day on our lake. I lower the boat slip, jump in the water, grab the little line attached to the bow handle, and side stroke out a couple hundered feet, South off the dock. I then climb in, lower the dagger board, drop the rudder, and hoist the sail (making sure there is tons of slack sheet line available so the wind wont send me sailing), then haul in the sheet......and Im off.

Don't get me wrong: its undignified as Hell - but it beats having the wind push me back into my dock, with the sail flapping all over the place, as my neighbors laugh out loud....ask me how I know this....... :)

Swim and pull it out of harms way, (life jacket on -always)....give yourself some room as the wind pushes you back to shore......... you will be surprised how quickly you can get things set up. (Most of it can be set up while you are on shore, as said above....have everything ready and in place before you swim/pull it off shore. Its hard for you now....but will be an easy, no brainer soon.....take it from me).

Hope this helps,
Whitecap. :)
 
Boards up, and sail down, I tried paddling from the bow today. It actually works, to paddle facing aft!
:eek: The rudder could have been left down, as it would be clear of the water—with my weight.

It was rough on this old back, but modest control could be had in 12-MPH winds plus heavy wakes. Far better progress would be made under light wind conditions. Use of the "J-stroke" is advised.

Before paddling from the bow, check the pop-rivets and tap-down any protruding edges. I suggest using a small hammer and a small socket—as below:
P8210023-001.JPG
 
[QUOTE="Chauncy, post: 164739, member: 41900"


Unfortunately no there is only one boat ramp. I could choose a different lake further away where i have to pay admittance. I will probably do that soon just for some variety.[/QUOTE]
Do you have a boat dolly or the ability to lift the boat over a 2' wall? I know a spot for N/S winds near you that's free with good parking, but the fish cops purposely destroyed the old boat ramp. Next season you should buy the DCR season pass. It pays for itself in 7 or 8 days and you can go to Hopkinton or Natick boat ramps.
 
Hi Chauncy,

First of all, kudos for sticking with trying to develop a technique for getting out of that cove... which sounds like a real challenge! Don't give up on it... you'll be proud when you've figured out how to finesse your way out on to the water.

To that end, here's what I'd recommend you do step by step for leaving that cove when you've got a headwind to deal with. The following description is exactly the technique that I have used to launch Sunfishes from coves such as yours for decades when the wind is blowing straight on shore. Through thick weeds (eel grass), in shallow muddy water, out through congested areas of moored boats, long boat ramp areas with floats on either side, you name it.

- First, rig the boat fully on shore including raising the sail. This is just to make sure everything is ok and ready to go and, in particular, your halyard and main sheet are running through what they should be running through. If you have a block that the mainsheet runs through at the cockpit, tie a figure 8 knot on the end of the mainsheet then make sure you have your entire mainsheet laying untangled in a pile in the front of the cockpit. This is so that when you raise the sail and the lower boom wants to swing way out to one side, it will be free to do so because the mainsheet will be completely free to pay out with it.

- Now lower your sail to the deck, put the booms together, roll the sail up and put 2 bungees or velcro ties around it. Move the booms so they are sitting a bit diagonally across the boat, with the bow end of the booms sticking out to the left side (port) near the bow and the stern ends out the starboard side. Leave the mast up... if you feel that once you are on the water you can move around the mast to get on the bow area in front of the mast.

- If you don't feel like you can move past the mast once you are out on the water, pull the mast out and lay it along side the booms and tie everything down. Now see if you will be able to sit on the bow area with the booms and mast sitting slightly diagonal. Move everything more diagonal or everything further towards the stern if you need more room.

- Raise the rudder so it will be out of the water. Have the daggerboard ready laying on its side inside the cockpit. Get yourself off the beach and immediately start paddling from the bow. If you have the mast down as well, you can even kneel while positioned right over or just in front of the mast tube on the deck instead of sitting. The boat will want to swing back and forth with no daggerboard down below the hull so you will have to alternate strokes on either side frequently.

- As soon as the weeds allow you to, sink the daggerboard all the way down. You will now be able to paddle from the bow with the boat going in a straight line. Leave the rudder up and out of the water. Sit up on the bow and paddle with your canoe or kayak paddle. Why a long canoe or kayak paddle vs the shorter praddle? That's because the long handle and big blade will allow you to create much longer and more powerful paddle strokes. This will give you much more horsepower to motor out into the lake.

- Once you are way out there, stow your paddle and get positioned to raise your sail. Put the mast in. Do NOT put your daggerboard in yet and do not lower your rudder yet. This will leave the boat free to adjust to the sail being raised and staying on one side of the boat. If you put either your daggerboard down first, or your rudder down first or both together, the boat will immediately want to start sailing and turning and raising your sail then securing your halyard will be a pain in the rear end because the boat will start sailing in circles, heading up, heading off, tacking and jibing while you are trying to finish your rigging.

- Once you have the sail raised, the halyard cleated and everything neat and tidy and the main sheet in a clean pile and not tangled, lower your rudder first. Even with the sail luffing, the boat should immediately start to pivot around the rudder and begin to bear off the wind on its own on to a close reach then a broad reach... a broad reaching being where you want to start sailing from to get flow established over the daggerboard as quickly as possible. If the boat won't bear off and do this and the sail is still luffing, move the rudder/tiller to the center line of the boat, grab the boom with one hand and either push it away from you or towards you so it starts catching some wind. When you do this, the boat will immediately pivot around the rudder and begin to head off.

- When the boat is just about to be heading on to a broad reach heading, let go of the boom so the sail is completely luffing again and sink your daggerboard all the way down. With the rudder/tiller still on the centerline of the boat, slowly sheet in the main sheet and fill the sail gradually. This will get the water to start flowing over the daggerboard. If you sheet in too hard and too fast, the boat will want to head up and you will risk stalling the flow over the daggerbord. Once you are clearly sailing in a straight line... meaning, clean flow of the water over the daggerboard has clearly been established... sheet in all the way. That's it, you're sailing.

Keep us posted on further developments. And don't give up on trying to figure out how to get out of your challenging, weedy, spectator packed cove with onshore winds. You got this!!

Cheers,

- Andy

Andy I've been meaning to reply to your post for several days now. Thanks so much for such a detailed response. Looks like lots of good info here. I will definitely try some of these techniques.
 
mixmkr and whitecap, thanks for suggestion of swimming it out, but the tall weeds in this lake would give me the willies if they touched my legs. They're all over the place like a mine field. I believe I would completely freak out.:eek: Good suggestion for another lake though. I hadn't thought of that.
 
My 4th time out today went much better but that mostly had to do with different direction of wind. It was a light south wind so i was actually able to put the sail up to start and just slowly float out on a run. I did so some padding too just in case. I kept daggerboard up, and sat on rudder, and did some paddling just to make sure i got out far enough before anything bad happened.

As i was coming back in the wind kind of died as i approached the nook, so i kind of did the reverse of Andy's suggestion, pulled everything up, then lowered sail, and paddled in. Didn't try paddling from the bow yet, and I'll have to remember Light Winds suggestion that you can face aft if it's easier.

Here's a picture i took today of where i launch. But it doesn't really do it justice because it appears much wider and shorter than it really is. 2nd time i got pushed sideways and stuck in weeds to the left (you can't see but the shore is just past where the picture ends). 3rd time i got pushed backwards (in weeds to the right of the picture). Today was fine :)

Also i hope i have not sounded too depressed with all these challenges/complaints i have been talking about. I am actually still having a blast. Wish i had started doing this 10-20 years ago. Really love it. Right now just wish there was stronger winds more often.
upload_2017-8-3_22-37-44.jpeg
 
Do you have a boat dolly or the ability to lift the boat over a 2' wall? I know a spot for N/S winds near you that's free with good parking, but the fish cops purposely destroyed the old boat ramp. Next season you should buy the DCR season pass. It pays for itself in 7 or 8 days and you can go to Hopkinton or Natick boat ramps.

No i don't have a dolly and probably couldn't lift the whole thing by myself. If i could get close to a beach i could probably lever it down off my trailer by myself.

Where do you go? The only places i have figured would be good for sailing near me besides this lake are Quinsigamond, Hopkinton State Park, maybe Ashland State Park, or maybe Lake Maspenock. Most everything else is either too small, too shallow, doesn't allow boating, or is too far away. Would love to hear your advice on any other options in this area.
 
Have you checked the forum for ideas on adding a motor?
Motorizing a Sunfish... | SailingForums.com

Now that you mention it, I haven't seen any boats on Quabbin. It would seem that motor-less sailboats shouldn't be a problem on a reservoir. Maybe check with them—or "start something"?

A sensitivity to weeds is something I got over. Twice a year, I sail on a lake where I watch for weeds being parted—a sign of a turtle or an alligator! :confused:

.
 

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