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is this a laser?

joecffv

New Member
just bought this buy on identification no title etc. guy said it might be about 20 + years old ????

I'd like to know what is is so i can figure out what to check on it and how to rig it etc. it has a main sail and a jib . i do not now anything about sailing ....... yet :)

darn i have to figure out how to add the pictures lol

Thanks
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
A Laser doesn't have a jib.

Could be a Laser 2, or some other sloop-rigged boat built by a Laser builder.

Waiting for the pictures.
 

joecffv

New Member
still trying to figure out the pictures i think it's about 12ft. My concern, the guy told me it was a monohull ( all sealed ) but do i need to worry about rotten stringers, rotten transom , water logged foam, etc.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
It's nothing that was ever built by a Laser manufacturer. (Maybe this should be moved to the general forum.)

It's at least 20 years old, probably much more. Germans came up with boats like this in the 1970s. (As did everyone else, but that was my first impression anyway.)

Let's roll out the mainsail next. Insignia, numbers?

And what do the plates/stickers on the transom and forward bulkhead say?
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
It looks like a Spiral, which was designed in New Zealand and still raced in Australia. By the late 70's, there were dozens of Laser rip of classes, designed and built by people wanting to cash in on the Laser success. None have been really successful beyond isolated pockets.
 
It looks like a Spiral, which was designed in New Zealand and still raced in Australia. By the late 70's, there were dozens of Laser rip of classes, designed and built by people wanting to cash in on the Laser success. None have been really successful beyond isolated pockets.
just bought this buy on identification no title etc. guy said it might be about 20 + years old ????

I'd like to know what is is so i can figure out what to check on it and how to rig it etc. it has a main sail and a jib . i do not now anything about sailing ....... yet :)

darn i have to figure out how to add the pictures lol

Thanks
Is it a SKY lark?
we used to sail one in the 70's ..
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
It looks like a Spiral, which was designed in New Zealand and still raced in Australia. By the late 70's, there were dozens of Laser rip of classes, designed and built by people wanting to cash in on the Laser success.
This one is not a Laser ripoff, but an obviously doublehanded boat with a stayed sloop rig.
Is it a SKY lark?
we used to sail one in the 70's ..
The only "Skylark" I can find is a curious tunnel-hulled boat with a una rig. Not the one you sailed, I assume. This one does look somewhat like a Lark (without the Sky), but the cockpit is different, and the freeboard appears lower.
A couple more pics

i dont think the sail is orginal
The "11 72" on the transom plate is likely the building month and year. The "73" stamped on the mainsail makes then sense, too. Why wouldn't the sail be original? The patina on the cringles certainly matches the age of the hull. No other markings on the sail?

Interesting rudder head design. (Evolutionary dead ends are always interesting. Easy to see why this never became popular, though.)

All in all, it looks like quite a modern boat for its time. Have you measured it yet? Overall length and max beam would certainly help with the detective work.

Next pictures: the whole mainsail, a profile of the hull (midship at right angles to the centreline at deck level; bow profile is important), and the whole transom directly from behind.
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
By "Laser ripoff", I mean the concept of lasers, off the shelf mass produced. Most of the designs that came out were single handlers, but some were multi handlers.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
By "Laser ripoff", I mean the concept of lasers, off the shelf mass produced.
Ok, fine. In my definition, a "ripoff" would be something like a near-copy, necessarily featuring most key technical solutions. Anyway, the Single Manufacturer One-Design concept was already out there by 1971, thanks to Sunfish and Hobie Alter (and even Paul Elvstrøm), although the Laser was the first with a worldwide spread.

I don't think the boat in this thread is part of the Laser wave of dinghy design, but rather the European (mainly French) based/inspired doublehanded culture, which peaked a few years before the Laser did.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
I think I found it!

It's a Sesame.

The Sesame is a singlehanded sloop designed by former aerospace engineer Allan J. Arnold in Lakewood, California, in 1971. Arnold designed also the Sea Spray cat, which is still raced in parts of Western Canada and the US.

Some 80 Sesames were built by 1974 by Seahorse Sailboats in Downey, CA. Obviously it was no great success. The hull looks very nice, but the rig was a weird choice for a singlehander.

Sources: sailboats '74 by Yacht Racing magazine, January 1974 issue of Motor Boating & Sailing magazine, and sailboatdata.com.
 

torrid

Just sailing
That's some good detective work. Even with the name of the boat and the builder, I'm coming up with zip online.
 

joecffv

New Member
I think I found it!

It's a Sesame.

The Sesame is a singlehanded sloop designed by former aerospace engineer Allan J. Arnold in Lakewood, California, in 1971. Arnold designed also the Sea Spray cat, which is still raced in parts of Western Canada and the US.

Some 80 Sesames were built by 1974 by Seahorse Sailboats in Downey, CA. Obviously it was no great success. The hull looks very nice, but the rig was a weird choice for a singlehander.

Sources: sailboats '74 by Yacht Racing magazine, January 1974 issue of Motor Boating & Sailing magazine, and sailboatdata.com.
That's very kind of you and thank you for taking your time to do that, will look up the info. and i'm sure it will be helpful
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
thank you for taking your time to do that, will look up the info. and i'm sure it will be helpful
You're welcome, but I have to say that there isn't much more available than what I already wrote - it's a very obscure little class from half a lifetime back.

The complete information on sailboats '74 is:

SESAME
Allan J. Arnold 1971
LOA: 12'0" BEAM: 4'6"
DRAFT: 0'3"
SAIL AREAS IN SQ. FT.: 68 + 32 = 100
CLASS WEIGHT: 90 lbs.
CONSTRUCTION:
HULL: fiberglass
SPARS: aluminum
FLOTATION:foam
Self bailing, stern flaps
CREW: 1
HIKING ASSIST: straps
PRICE NEW: $695*
USED PRICE: $450 - 550
NUMBER IN U.S.: 80
NUMBER WORLDWIDE: 80
AREAS: 2, 4, 7, 13**
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION:
F. R. Arnold
20542 Vendale Dr.
Lakewood, CA 90713

*
A Californian-built Laser cost $795 at the time.
** This means that some boats were sold outside Southern California: the New York City area, Florida +neighbouring states, and the Lake Michigan area.

The other magazine shows a small profile drawing: MotorBoating

That's all. If you need help with rigging/tuning/boathandling, etc. you will have to rely on general dinghy sloop knowledge. Hopefully the boat doesn't have any unsolvable idiosyncrasies.
 

Souzag

New Member
A little late to the party…. OKAY a lot late, but it is indeed a Sesame built in the early 70’s
I’ve got one. They were actually ahead of their time and quite innovative. They were foam cored, with very thin(1/8”) foam, so they were quite light. Their marketing slogan was “Light boats sail fast”. And they are fast! I used to race against Lasers, unofficially, and always beat them. Unlike a Laser, they had a roller furling headsail, (I said they were innovative…) which helped upwind. Plus being very light and flat, you’d plane off the wind like nothing I’ve ever sailed on. If you weren’t sitting as far back on the stern as you can, they would pitch pole. I found out the hard way….
I bought mine about 30 years ago, and sailed the crap out of it. Now I’m a little too old, and out of shape for it, but I kept it for the grand kids. Maybe one day they’ll get interested…..
 

Souzag

New Member
I can't say how the stock rudder worked. When I bought my boat it had everything but the rudder. My center board was foam filled with a FG skin, so I made a pivoting foam cored rudder, with aluminum cheecks, a big wing nut to clamp it in the down position, and a mahogany tiller. Didn't have the mesurements, so I just winged it as far as dimensions. Held up all these years....
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Never seen a rudder stock like that. How does it work?
Looks like it's simply asymmetric, with one cheek only. You probably need to have all the bolts extra tight to minimize slop. Doesn't look very practical. Would like to see what's on the other side, though. Too bad Souzag can't show us. Is joecffv still reading this...?

I’ve got one ... I used to race against Lasers, unofficially, and always beat them.
14 % shorter than a Laser, but 20 % lighter and 32 % more sail area. Should be faster in most conditions. Identical beam means more hiking leverage is needed, though.

Unlike a Laser, they had a roller furling headsail, (I said they were innovative…) which helped upwind.
I wouldn't call it "innovative" to slap a similar rig on every boat you design, regardless of the number of people and hulls it's supposed to propel... but that's what Allan Arnold apparently did. Having a headsail on a singlehander is a strange choice, certainly making tacking harder and downwind technique trickier. The only other comparable boats that come to mind are the International Canoe and the South African Dabchick, and they're outliers in other ways, too.

If you weren’t sitting as far back on the stern as you can, they would pitch pole.
Sounds like not enough buoyancy forward. I understand this is one the reasons the D-Zero and Melges 14 (both designed initially/primarlly for small lakes) didn't do well at the Olympic singlehanded trials a couple years back. But the hulls of all three sure look cool :D

_
 
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