Is it really a one design class?

R

Ross B

Guest
#61
How fast are finns and stars compared to lasers?
Finns are a smidge faster than the Laser upwind, downwind the Laser will often have an advantage as we can plane, but Finns can surf waves, and don't plow nose first into them, they just slice through them. I would still say Finn's are faster, but it depends on the point of sail I guess.

For Stars, forget it, their faster all around.

*Also look at the Portsmouth Yardstick numbers. My current records show that the Star is at 83.1, and the Laser comes in at 91.1, and the Finn at 90.1, so it's just slightly faster. Also of interest is the Europe, which is at 92.8. And all are Olympic. These are numbers from March 2006. I have older numbers which can be 3 to 4 places different, so they do change
 
#62
Compared to other boats, lasers are EASY!
If you find sailing Lasers is easy, then you must be doing it so well you're winning all the time. So how many world, national and district Laser titles have you won?:confused:

It's interesting that you think Tom Slingsby's sailing is mindless......is that why you beat him all the time? Or is it possible that you are actually missing out on a lot of what makes Laser racing so challenging?
 
#63
If you find sailing Lasers is easy, then you must be doing it so well you're winning all the time. So how many world, national and district Laser titles have you won?:confused:

It's interesting that you think Tom Slingsby's sailing is mindless......is that why you beat him all the time? Or is it possible that you are actually missing out on a lot of what makes Laser racing so challenging?
1. District 10 champs- 1st place
2. mayra midsummers-1st
etc etc


I didn't say it was easy, I said its not the hardest boat to sail once you start sailing more "advanced boats" (defiantly trying not to sound like a douche)
 

Rob B

Active Member
#64
1. District 10 champs- 1st place
2. mayra midsummers-1st
etc etc


I didn't say it was easy, I said its not the hardest boat to sail once you start sailing more "advanced boats" (defiantly trying not to sound like a douche)

Are you comparing your results from these events as putting you on par with Singsby?
 

Rob B

Active Member
#66
have you ever sailed a star?

You can not seriously tell me that racing say a farr 40, finn, star, etc is not mindless.

Compared to other boats, lasers are EASY!
You can not compare a Farr 40, or Star at all with a Laser. The simple fact that they have, uh, CREW completely change the dynamics. Not to mention they sport stayed/supported rigs, headsails and numerous other "tweeky" options.

However, body position, body movements, (within the rule 42 unbrella) sail settings, traveller settings, hiking strap settings, blade condition, body condition, weight, height and so on are important elements for a serious Laser racer. The tactics between the classes follow the same principles.

The Finn is a more "tweeky" boat due to the fact alone that serious sailors have sails and carbon spars designed to their body weight and sailing style.

However, to say the laser is a "get in it and sail" type boat is irresponsible for the "New" boat owners we have reading these messages. For them to have the idea they can get in it, race with a fleet and finish well is setting them up for disappointment. It is possible if you are an experienced, successful sailor w/dingy experience already, but for the true "newbie" it will take time and practice to get things right.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#67
1. District 10 champs- 1st place
2. mayra midsummers-1st
etc etc


I didn't say it was easy, I said its not the hardest boat to sail once you start sailing more "advanced boats" (defiantly trying not to sound like a douche)

I suggest you be humble about your results, and not go spouting off your placings.
 
#69
1. District 10 champs- 1st place
2. mayra midsummers-1st
etc etc


I didn't say it was easy, I said its not the hardest boat to sail once you start sailing more "advanced boats" (defiantly trying not to sound like a douche)
There were only 2 radials at the District 10 champs. There was only one race in radials at the MAYRA Mid-Summer Regatta. Your results, while a good accomplishment for a junior sailor, are not good enough for you to use in support of your position that sailing a Laser is easy.

Sailing a Laser is different from sailing a boat like a Star. They are both, however, one design classes.
With a Laser you can be confident that your boat with its manufacturer supplied components is just as fast as the other boats in the fleet. Winning in Lasers comes down to the skill of the sailor.
In a Star, which is still a one design class but with looser design rules, you can use slightly different masts, sails, hulls, keels, etc. but you are theoretically still racing essentially the same boat as the other guys. There are just more options that can be used to optimize the boat even before you get to on-the-water adjustments.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#70
I suggest you be humble about your results, and not go spouting off your placings.
There were only 2 radials at the District 10 champs. There was only one race in radials at the MAYRA Mid-Summer Regatta. Your results, while a good accomplishment for a junior sailor, are not good enough for you to use in support of your position that sailing a Laser is easy.
This is why I said you need to be humble about your racing. Most often when you go other places, people don't care how well you finished, because they've never seen your resume, and God help you, or me, if they have! All they care about is that you go the skills to pay the bills when the shit hits the fan.


Sailing a Laser is different from sailing a boat like a Star. They are both, however, one design classes.
With a Laser you can be confident that your boat with its manufacturer supplied components is just as fast as the other boats in the fleet. Winning in Lasers comes down to the skill of the sailor.
In a Star, which is still a one design class but with looser design rules, you can use slightly different masts, sails, hulls, keels, etc. but you are theoretically still racing essentially the same boat as the other guys. There are just more options that can be used to optimize the boat even before you get to on-the-water adjustments.
I concur. Often the Laser is used as a stepping stone to other boats, such as the Finn and the Star, and even the Americas Cup, because so much emphasis is placed on tactics, because the boats are so similar.
 

Rob B

Active Member
#71
There were only 2 radials at the District 10 champs. There was only one race in radials at the MAYRA Mid-Summer Regatta. Your results, while a good accomplishment for a junior sailor, are not good enough for you to use in support of your position that sailing a Laser is easy.

Yikes. You should follow Ross' advice on this one.
 
#72
In Sk8ing sailor's defence, he was pretty much answering my post when he put those results up . However, like others have pointed out, saying that sailing a Laser well is "easy" is just not true - there are more people you have to beat than in any other class (except perhaps the Opti) and lots them are skilled sailors who train very hard.

I admit I haven't sailed a Finn or Star (too short) or a Farr 40 (problems with amateur requirements) but I found sailing 52s with the world Farr 40 champ to be miles easier mentally and technically than sailing a Laser fast, and similar physically. That may not apply to all jobs, of course, but overall winning in Lasers requires a hell of a lot of skill and dedication. Why else are the top guys training so hard?

By the way, if you're Radial size what are you doing on a Star or Finn?
 
#73
Another aspect that makes racing Lasers challenging is the competition. The nature of the class attracts some very talented sailors. In small fleets (e.g. yourself and one other) then you might not notice this. However, there are large and very competitive fleets out there.

One thing always strikes me as a challenge to improving is being critical of your own performance (recognising your mistakes, etc. and learning from them). Too much of the “Its really easy” and “I’m the best (saw off all (one) challenger” attitude can hinder that learning process.

Ian
 
#74
If laser sailing relies on the skipper then it is not one design racing. You could buy a "faster" skipper and win the olympics in "your" boat.

haha.

gotcha.

game over case closed.

all go home now.

I win.

boohoo

too bad.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#76
If laser sailing relies on the skipper then it is not one design racing. You could buy a "faster" skipper and win the olympics in "your" boat.

haha.

gotcha.

game over case closed.

all go home now.

I win.

boohoo

too bad.
are you sure you are playing with a full deck?
you know I love you Saw, we're brothers from another mother! But I agree with sailchris here. You hitting the peyote man?
 
#77


It's all about the cash and the prestige of winning, say, a watch at the Masters worlds.

If you were rich enough you could buy a team of winners, put them in your boats, cover them with advertising for whatever you sell, like chocolate or tyres or incense sticks or sanitary pads, and take the sporting world by storm.



and since you can't get exactly the same skipper for your cash, it's a bit like buying expensive gear in a development class. No block or foil is going to make as much difference as the skipper.

This is the way Laser racing will go. Into the future! and not a moment too soon.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#79


It's all about the cash and the prestige of winning, say, a watch at the Masters worlds.

If you were rich enough you could buy a team of winners, put them in your boats, cover them with advertising for whatever you sell, like chocolate or tyres or incense sticks or sanitary pads, and take the sporting world by storm.



and since you can't get exactly the same skipper for your cash, it's a bit like buying expensive gear in a development class. No block or foil is going to make as much difference as the skipper.

This is the way Laser racing will go. Into the future! and not a moment too soon.

The future is NOW! Ever heard of Philippe Kahn?

http://www.pegasus.com/
 
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